Author Topic: New Suspension/Brakes/Wheels and tires combo Challenger  (Read 2178 times)

Offline Raphabueno

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New Suspension/Brakes/Wheels and tires combo Challenger
« on: November 22, 2015 - 02:24:39 AM »
Lately, I've been way more active with my posts and this forum is amazing to answer my questions. The next step of my project is suspension, brakes and wheels and to be sincere I have "zero" knowledge on this topic.
I spoke to the guys from Hotchkis and John gave me very good ideas. My budget for the suspension and brakes is 4k and this will be a street car only, my daily driver. The below list is what I came up:

- Suspension (Hotchkis TVS stage II) Bought it last week
- Brakes (11" discs in front with stock drums in the rear) http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/BrakeKitsProdFront.aspx?itemno=140-11019-DR&year=1974&make=Dodge&model=Challenger&option=All
- Wheels - Centerline SERIES-CHAMP 506 18x9.5 rear and 18x8 front http://centerlinewheels.com/wheels_detail.php?sw_id=459
- Tires - 245x45x18 front 275x40x18 rear

Now the questions:

1 - What back space do you guys recommend?
2- Do I need to use a relocation kit? Can I go wider on the rear, 285 or 295 maybe?
3- How about shocks, torsion bar and steering box, really necessary?

- Shocks - http://www.hotchkis.net/product/hotchkis-tuned-1-5-street-performance-series-shock-4-pack-dodge-a-body/?searchby=part&partnoval=79020015
- Torsion Bars - http://www.hotchkis.net/product/41-in-1-03-in-forged-torsion-bars-for-mopar-b-and-e-body-models/?searchby=part&partnoval=19367
- Steering box - Firm feel stage 3

I'm sorry for all the questions but I hoep you guys can help.

Thanks








Offline JoeGrapes

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Re: New Suspension/Brakes/Wheels and tires combo Challenger
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2015 - 10:57:55 AM »
You shouldn't need to move the springs with 275 tires. I have 295/45-18 on my Barracuda and while I did moves the springs I probably didn't need to. I have 18 x 9.5 wheels with 5.75 back spacing and the tires were pretty close, about 1/8" but I have plenty of room at the wheel lip so if I went with 5.5 back spacing the fit would have been perfect.
Like you I'm going to upgrade the suspension this spring and I think I'm going to take the relocation brackets out and if I need to I'll put a thin spacer between the wheel and hub.
I used 17 x 8 wheels in the front. I really like the look of the different wheel sizes. It's not noticeable and If I didn't tell you they were different you wouldn't notice. The 18" wheels in the front were not quite the look I was going for.
I also have Wilwood disc all around. I have the 4 piston black caliper brakes. I didn't drill or slot the rotors because that look is a little more modern than I wanted. Also think about using disc brakes in the rear too. They look better thru custom wheels, IMO.

Offline jhaag

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Re: New Suspension/Brakes/Wheels and tires combo Challenger
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2015 - 11:38:11 AM »
Joegrapes, do you have an e body or b body rear diff? Do you know if the wheel wells are the same cuda and challenger?
love 70 Challengers

Offline JoeGrapes

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Re: New Suspension/Brakes/Wheels and tires combo Challenger
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2015 - 11:53:51 AM »
I have the stock E-body axle. I believe the Challenger body to be a little wider than the Barracuda but I'm not sure if the wheel wells are different or if the extra width is just the character lines of the body. 

Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: New Suspension/Brakes/Wheels and tires combo Challenger
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2015 - 05:48:52 PM »
1- for an 8" rim in the front you'd want a backspace between 4.5" and 5" or so. A 245 is a pretty easy fit as far as the width is concerned, although a 245/45/18 is 26.7" tall, which is a pretty darn tall for the front. I try to say closer to 26" tall for the front tires. A 255/40/18 would fit just fine as well and be a little better on the height, and you could run that one on a 9.5" wide front rim. With a 18x9.5" in the front I would suggest 5.25 to 5.5" of backspace.

2- No need for an offset in the back to run 275's no problem at all there. 285's shouldn't be an issue, 295's would be pretty tight unless you didn't mind rolling the lip on the quarters. I would stick to 275's or 285's without the relocation though. I would say 5.25 to 5.5" of backspace again for an 18x9.5" on a stock E body rear. 5.25 is probably about right on the money, 5.5" might need a small spacer (5mm or so). But if you ever decide to go with disks on the rear it helps to have a little extra backspace, most of the aftermarket disk kits add a little width to the rear. And you can always add a small spacer if you have a little too much backspace, but you can't do anything if you don't have enough.

3- Yes. You absolutely want good shocks and larger torsion bars. The stock torsion bars on these cars are horribly undersized. 1.03's would be a good choice, they would significantly improve your handling, but still should be fine when it comes to ride quality. The Hotchkis Fox shocks are awesome. I have a set on my Duster. They're even better than the RCD Bilsteins, which are pretty darn good themselves. I run 1.12" torsion bars on my Challenger (270 lb/in wheel rate) with the Bilsteins, I still think it rides great. And the handling is light years ahead of stock. Even though my Duster is a bit lighter than my Challenger, I run 1.12" bars on it too (300 lb/in wheel rate). With the hotchkis shocks the ride quality is very similar to my Challenger, despite the higher wheel rate and lighter car.

As for the steering, going to a stage 3 box will get rid of that overboosted, drive with your pinky finger and not have any road feel issue that the stock boxes have. But it doesn't change the ratio any, the power boxes are all 16:1. So it just changes the amount of "boost" that the power steering provides. Another option is to go to the quick ratio steering arms, which actually changes the steering ratio to 12:1 and will make the steering faster (and less overboosted). Only issue with those is header clearance, so you have to make sure you've got headers that will clear them.

I run my Challenger with 17x9's with 5" of backspace and 275/40/17's on all 4 corners. I do have a relocation kit installed with a 68-70 width B body rear end, but I have enough clearance to run 335's with that combo. As I already mentioned I also run it with 1.12" torsion bars and Bilstein shocks. I also have Hotchkis UCA's in the front, and I use the 73+ style F/M/J spindles with the later B/R body 11.75" rotors and stock calipers, no need for aftermarket brakes with that combo on the street. In the back I just run mopar XHD springs, but I also have 11x2.5" drums in the back to aid in stopping. The car sits pretty low also...



Offline Raphabueno

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Re: New Suspension/Brakes/Wheels and tires combo Challenger
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2015 - 06:11:20 PM »
Thank you for the information. I also like you challenger stance, very good job.
John from Hotchkis recommended the Howe Steering quickener 1.5:1 to modify the steering ratio. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hre-5225  I will have to check since I will be running the tti headers and exhaust system. I check with the tire shop by my house if I can test some different tire sizes to see how they fit.

Thank you

Offline WildJones

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Re: New Suspension/Brakes/Wheels and tires combo Challenger
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2015 - 07:24:24 PM »
Thank you for the information. I also like you challenger stance, very good job.
John from Hotchkis recommended the Howe Steering quickener 1.5:1 to modify the steering ratio. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hre-5225  I will have to check since I will be running the tti headers and exhaust system. I check with the tire shop by my house if I can test some different tire sizes to see how they fit.

Thank you


What motor are you running? TTI told me that the big block 2" primary tube headers are the only headers that would clear the quick ratio arms. I did not ask about small block as I had already began building my motor at that point. The 2" headers are routed differently than the smaller primary tube headers, and its this different routing that allows the use of the quick ratio arms.
Mike
95682
1970 Cuda

Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: New Suspension/Brakes/Wheels and tires combo Challenger
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2015 - 12:55:35 AM »
Thank you for the information. I also like you challenger stance, very good job.
John from Hotchkis recommended the Howe Steering quickener 1.5:1 to modify the steering ratio. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hre-5225  I will have to check since I will be running the tti headers and exhaust system. I check with the tire shop by my house if I can test some different tire sizes to see how they fit.

Thank you


The howe steering quickner is what they used on the Hotchkis Challenger. Does the same thing really, modifies the steering ratio to 12:1. Not exactly sure how they modified the steering shaft to make it work though, that would be the only trick to it. Not a problem if you don't mind cutting and welding on the steering shaft, but probably not something you'd want to do if you're trying to keep things relatively stock. It's not a bolt on mod at any rate.

Offline Raphabueno

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Re: New Suspension/Brakes/Wheels and tires combo Challenger
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2015 - 01:52:06 PM »
What motor are you running? TTI told me that the big block 2" primary tube headers are the only headers that would clear the quick ratio arms. I did not ask about small block as I had already began building my motor at that point. The 2" headers are routed differently than the smaller primary tube headers, and its this different routing that allows the use of the quick ratio arms.

I will be running a small block 5.7 hemi vvt IV gen. The headers are 1-3/4" O.D. tubes with 3" 3-bolt collectors, I think it should be fine, but definitely will be tight.

Thanks