Author Topic: Hot hot is the coil supposed to get.  (Read 4163 times)

Offline usraptr

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Hot hot is the coil supposed to get.
« on: October 01, 2016 - 01:52:21 PM »
Fresh 4430 engine build on 70 'Cuda. Converted to electronic ignition. Trying to start engine with no luck so far.   I noticed that after cranking the engine several times the coil was very hot to the touch.  Not burning hot, but very very warm/hot.  Is this normal?   Black wire from ECU to negative side of coil, blue wire with yellow tracer to run wire.  Blue run wire connected to positive side of coil.  Yesterday I had the blue wire with y tracer hooked up to the wrong blue wire(goes to the alternator).  I cranked the engine several times.  Is it possible I fired the ECU by doing this.  Also, another newbie/stupid question.  Does the distributor fire when it's at the .008 position where you measure the "air gap" or at a different position?   :banghead: :pullinghair: :feedback:
« Last Edit: October 01, 2016 - 02:00:54 PM by usraptr »
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda.  Matching numbers 440 U Code, 4 speed pistol grip, Rallye dash, AM 8 Track, Shaker hood, 15 inch rallye wheels, Dana 60 4.10, Super Track Pak.  One of 134 - 440 "U" coupes codes built in 1970 and one of 100 - 440 Super Track Paks built in 1970.

Restoration pictures at:  http://spanks4thememory.smugmug.com/Cars/70-Cuda/7240639_M24oi#465274575_2MBqW
(Edited 8-1-17)

"usraptr" = United States raptor - bird of prey = United States Bald Eagle.  FYI, somebody else thought of it first so I had to drop the "O" in raptor.




Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Hot hot is the coil supposed to get.
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2016 - 01:57:40 PM »

The ballast resistor is in place to keep the voltage down on the coil when the motor is running. It does bypass it when cranking the motor so the starter gets the full 12V to start but then kicks down to 8-9V so the coil can last.

You need to find out what voltage is getting to the coil when the car is running.
1970 Cuda Clone 440 4 speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 4 speed - yellow - SOLD

Offline usraptr

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Re: Hot hot is the coil supposed to get.
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2016 - 02:01:42 PM »
Right now I can't get engine running to check the voltage.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda.  Matching numbers 440 U Code, 4 speed pistol grip, Rallye dash, AM 8 Track, Shaker hood, 15 inch rallye wheels, Dana 60 4.10, Super Track Pak.  One of 134 - 440 "U" coupes codes built in 1970 and one of 100 - 440 Super Track Paks built in 1970.

Restoration pictures at:  http://spanks4thememory.smugmug.com/Cars/70-Cuda/7240639_M24oi#465274575_2MBqW
(Edited 8-1-17)

"usraptr" = United States raptor - bird of prey = United States Bald Eagle.  FYI, somebody else thought of it first so I had to drop the "O" in raptor.

Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Hot hot is the coil supposed to get.
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2016 - 02:26:24 PM »

Ok, take a ohm resistance reading of your ballast resistor and coil and post back here.
1970 Cuda Clone 440 4 speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 4 speed - yellow - SOLD

Offline usraptr

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Re: Hot hot is the coil supposed to get.
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2016 - 09:57:12 PM »
Thanks, my son is coming over tomorrow and we'll check it out and post the results.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda.  Matching numbers 440 U Code, 4 speed pistol grip, Rallye dash, AM 8 Track, Shaker hood, 15 inch rallye wheels, Dana 60 4.10, Super Track Pak.  One of 134 - 440 "U" coupes codes built in 1970 and one of 100 - 440 Super Track Paks built in 1970.

Restoration pictures at:  http://spanks4thememory.smugmug.com/Cars/70-Cuda/7240639_M24oi#465274575_2MBqW
(Edited 8-1-17)

"usraptr" = United States raptor - bird of prey = United States Bald Eagle.  FYI, somebody else thought of it first so I had to drop the "O" in raptor.

Offline dodj

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Re: Hot hot is the coil supposed to get.
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2016 - 12:22:18 PM »
And seeing as it is freshly rewired,( ALL redone on this car, right?) go over the schematic and make sure you have all the wires going to the correct place. Make sure you have 12vdc on the brown wire when trying to start. If you have redone the column and wiring, check that the column connectors have the blue and brown wires in the right place. ie blue on one side matches blue on the other. Ive seen one repro ignition switch with them reversed.
Scott
1973 Challenger  440 4 spd 
2007.5 3500 6.7 Cummins Diesel, Anarchy tuned.
Good friends don't let friends do stupid things. ........alone.

Offline usraptr

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Re: Hot hot is the coil supposed to get.
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2016 - 07:02:40 PM »
HP Cuda, ohm resistance on ballast resistor is 2.5 and the coil was 1.8.

dodj, I'm using the original wire harness.  I thoroughly checked it out prior to reinstalling and it was in good shape including the steering column wiring.   The only new wiring is the ECU to convert to an electronic distributor.  My Run wire from the ignition is blue.   I assume from a previous post I read there really isn't a correct side for the ballast resistor so it doesn't make any difference which side of the ballast resistor the "run" wire is connected too?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2016 - 09:19:20 PM by usraptr »
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda.  Matching numbers 440 U Code, 4 speed pistol grip, Rallye dash, AM 8 Track, Shaker hood, 15 inch rallye wheels, Dana 60 4.10, Super Track Pak.  One of 134 - 440 "U" coupes codes built in 1970 and one of 100 - 440 Super Track Paks built in 1970.

Restoration pictures at:  http://spanks4thememory.smugmug.com/Cars/70-Cuda/7240639_M24oi#465274575_2MBqW
(Edited 8-1-17)

"usraptr" = United States raptor - bird of prey = United States Bald Eagle.  FYI, somebody else thought of it first so I had to drop the "O" in raptor.

Offline 73440

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Re: Hot hot is the coil supposed to get.
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2016 - 09:48:11 PM »
http://s1302.photobucket.com/user/73440/slideshow/Electronic%20Ignition

I installed a Rev-N-Nator and Accell electronic distributor recently.
The wiring to the ballastt resistor in the photos is how I finally got the engine to run.
67 440
72 413 / 727
73 Barracuda w/ 68 440
65 Plymouth Fury III , I sold ,was my Nana's car till 92 yo.
51 Ford F1 239 Flathead, flipped , new cab , stolen
59 BelAir 283 4 door original patina
01 Chevy van 420, 520 miles
06 Crown Vic Police Interceptor
75 HD Ironhead converted to RH shift
73 HD Ironhead
82 HD Ironhead
74 Norton 850
80 HD Shovelhead
80 Husqvarna WR 390

Offline usraptr

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Re: Hot hot is the coil supposed to get.
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2016 - 10:17:48 PM »
Thanks 73440.  Question in the picture #7 of your cam/distributor drive gear it appears to me that the slot is not parallel with the center line of the crankshaft.  It's more at an 1-2 o'clock position.  Am I just looking at it wrong?  Also, my car has a two prong ballast resistor instead of a 4 prong.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2016 - 10:19:37 PM by usraptr »
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda.  Matching numbers 440 U Code, 4 speed pistol grip, Rallye dash, AM 8 Track, Shaker hood, 15 inch rallye wheels, Dana 60 4.10, Super Track Pak.  One of 134 - 440 "U" coupes codes built in 1970 and one of 100 - 440 Super Track Paks built in 1970.

Restoration pictures at:  http://spanks4thememory.smugmug.com/Cars/70-Cuda/7240639_M24oi#465274575_2MBqW
(Edited 8-1-17)

"usraptr" = United States raptor - bird of prey = United States Bald Eagle.  FYI, somebody else thought of it first so I had to drop the "O" in raptor.

Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Hot hot is the coil supposed to get.
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2016 - 10:47:32 PM »

Ballast seems a bit high. You should probably replace it. Your standard coil should be 1.3 to 1.7 so that is a little on the high side. Total resistence is 4.3 ohms.

Here is some good reads:
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=57397.msg629044#msg629044
http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=115



HP Cuda, ohm resistance on ballast resistor is 2.5 and the coil was 1.8.

dodj, I'm using the original wire harness.  I thoroughly checked it out prior to reinstalling and it was in good shape including the steering column wiring.   The only new wiring is the ECU to convert to an electronic distributor.  My Run wire from the ignition is blue.   I assume from a previous post I read there really isn't a correct side for the ballast resistor so it doesn't make any difference which side of the ballast resistor the "run" wire is connected too?
1970 Cuda Clone 440 4 speed - sublime green
1970 Cuda 383 4 speed - yellow - SOLD

Offline 73440

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Re: Hot hot is the coil supposed to get.
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2016 - 10:54:51 PM »
You are correct , it was not parallel to crankshaft like the manual said , I believe I posed that same question on here when I saw that also and was assured that as long as you still get it all lined up with #1 cyl on compression it is all good.
Although with the new distributor and how it was clocked , I had to rotate the plug wires for the firing order on the cap to compensate to align the rotor with #1 cyl.
The two photos of the rotors show the difference in where the rotors pointed to and why I moved the wires.
I have a photo somewhere showing the rotors and distributor drive gear tenon do not match from points to electronic distributors.

I am not sure of the wiring to a two post ballast resistor.
67 440
72 413 / 727
73 Barracuda w/ 68 440
65 Plymouth Fury III , I sold ,was my Nana's car till 92 yo.
51 Ford F1 239 Flathead, flipped , new cab , stolen
59 BelAir 283 4 door original patina
01 Chevy van 420, 520 miles
06 Crown Vic Police Interceptor
75 HD Ironhead converted to RH shift
73 HD Ironhead
82 HD Ironhead
74 Norton 850
80 HD Shovelhead
80 Husqvarna WR 390

Offline usraptr

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Re: Hot hot is the coil supposed to get.
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2016 - 10:05:16 AM »
Thanks HP cuda.  That was a good write up and explanation.

Also, thanks 73440.    I really appreciate your guys help.  I'll get back to you if I can get this fired.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda.  Matching numbers 440 U Code, 4 speed pistol grip, Rallye dash, AM 8 Track, Shaker hood, 15 inch rallye wheels, Dana 60 4.10, Super Track Pak.  One of 134 - 440 "U" coupes codes built in 1970 and one of 100 - 440 Super Track Paks built in 1970.

Restoration pictures at:  http://spanks4thememory.smugmug.com/Cars/70-Cuda/7240639_M24oi#465274575_2MBqW
(Edited 8-1-17)

"usraptr" = United States raptor - bird of prey = United States Bald Eagle.  FYI, somebody else thought of it first so I had to drop the "O" in raptor.

Offline usraptr

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Re: Hot hot is the coil supposed to get.
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2016 - 01:39:27 PM »
Checked abd re-checked everything and wasn't getting any spark.  Summit is going to replace everything on warranty.  Will let you know how it goes when I get the new kit installed.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda.  Matching numbers 440 U Code, 4 speed pistol grip, Rallye dash, AM 8 Track, Shaker hood, 15 inch rallye wheels, Dana 60 4.10, Super Track Pak.  One of 134 - 440 "U" coupes codes built in 1970 and one of 100 - 440 Super Track Paks built in 1970.

Restoration pictures at:  http://spanks4thememory.smugmug.com/Cars/70-Cuda/7240639_M24oi#465274575_2MBqW
(Edited 8-1-17)

"usraptr" = United States raptor - bird of prey = United States Bald Eagle.  FYI, somebody else thought of it first so I had to drop the "O" in raptor.

Offline dodj

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Re: Hot hot is the coil supposed to get.
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2016 - 02:20:30 PM »
2.5 ohms doesn't seem too bad for a run ballast resistance to me?
But seeing as it doesn't start, that would not be your most pressing problem. Seeing as your coil is heating up, it must be getting the 12vdc (or at least something) You can disconnect your starter wire and have someone hold the key in 'start' and measure the voltage on the brown wire. I'll bet you are getting 12vdc. If it is there, and you have made sure all wiring is correct, it is down to ECU or reluctor.  :2cents:
Scott
1973 Challenger  440 4 spd 
2007.5 3500 6.7 Cummins Diesel, Anarchy tuned.
Good friends don't let friends do stupid things. ........alone.

Offline usraptr

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Re: Hot hot is the coil supposed to get.
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2016 - 09:03:18 PM »
Still no luck with new Dist and ECU.  Started a new post.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda.  Matching numbers 440 U Code, 4 speed pistol grip, Rallye dash, AM 8 Track, Shaker hood, 15 inch rallye wheels, Dana 60 4.10, Super Track Pak.  One of 134 - 440 "U" coupes codes built in 1970 and one of 100 - 440 Super Track Paks built in 1970.

Restoration pictures at:  http://spanks4thememory.smugmug.com/Cars/70-Cuda/7240639_M24oi#465274575_2MBqW
(Edited 8-1-17)

"usraptr" = United States raptor - bird of prey = United States Bald Eagle.  FYI, somebody else thought of it first so I had to drop the "O" in raptor.