302 vs 308 casting heads for 1971 318, Johnson lifter and piston/ring source

[duodec]

My restoration ('71 Challenger base model) has been on hiatus for years due to work; its time to press on since I've been on a machine shop waitlist for months and it should come up soon-ish (2-3 more months).  I have many parts for building up a nice 360 but I had always planned to rebuild the tired stock 318 (170K miles) as my first engine (so I know better what I'm doing with the 360). 

The 318 will remain a 2 barrel with the Carter BBD carb on it, dual exhaust with stock-ish exhaust manifolds if I can still find better ones (not 340s though, that's for the bigger engine).  I'm considering a slightly more performance cam (RV or one step above that over stock).  Johnson lifters.

Also stock pistons, keeping the same crank and rods (barring the machine shop telling me otherwise)

I have a set of 308 casting cylinder heads for the 360.  I was aiming at a set of 302s for the 318 since the two barrel intake will probably obviate any benefit from the larger valves in the 308s, and I'm not keeping the stock heads; don't want to pay to get valve seats installed and they are pre-unleaded heads.  Would there actually be any benefit to 308s over 302s with stock intake and exhaust?

Where's the best place to buy hy-lift johnson lifters these days?  I don't want to risk getting chinese crap under all the traditional brand names; so far the only place I've found advertising them at all is Hughes Engines.

And BTW Hughes mentions not running oil heavier than 10w30 with the lifters, even what appear to be stock replacement.  Been a long time since that engine ran but in Las Vegas (hot!) I ran 20w50.  Something specific to the Johnson lifters or just the newer oil blends?  I am aware that both proper assembly lube and ZDDP oil (or additives) will be needed to keep the cam and lifters happy  (thanks for nothing epa).

Who still makes decent quality stock or near stock pistons and rings, preferably at least North American, at least not chinese caca?  And engine bearings?  Won't know sizes until the machine shop gets back to me.

Thanks

[jimynick]

I don't get why you're "doing" a 318 when you have a 360 available, but your car, your call. I can't speak as to the heads, but as for pistons and rings, there's Speed Pro and Federal Mogul, both I believe, now owned by Mahle, and introducing German engineering into the mix is seldom an issue. Check out Uncle Tony's Garage on YouTube; he's a Mopar guy and he's also built some pretty stout 318's as well. Good luck! 

[duodec]

I've always intended to rebuild and keep the original 318; I know 'all original' doesn't carry the value for a base model that it would for an R/T but still want to keep it.  The 360 plan was (and largely still is) a "340 Six Pack" on the less expensive 360 short block; even 25 years ago when I started collecting parts, 340 blocks and cranks were stupid expensive and their rise in cost has more than kept up with my rise in salary, and extra 20 cubic inches... why not?  I've got a 360 core engine that still turned freely, 308 heads, intake, carbs, air filter, most of the linkage and fuel parts. 

The 360, due to the fuel system and more power, is a more complex beast.  The 318 was still running decently well when the car was parked.  I have a nearly new carb and a quality rebuild kit for it.  It still has the 904 trans and the small pinion 2.76 8-3/4" axle; with the 360 I want an A518 overdrive unit which I don't have yet, and a large pinion pig in the rear axle (I have a 1-3/4" 3.55 setup ready to bolt in).  So with the 318 I get a running car back sooner, even if its not completed to the level I eventually want.  And again some practice doing a less expensive engine build (post machine-shop) before I tackle the the bigger one. 

Of course who knows, in a few years I might just decide to drop a late gen hemi in it instead if I decide the six-pack is too much hassle... and if I can afford it.  But it will have been running and usable with that little 318 in the interim.

[jimynick]

Go for it. I'm not the guy to slam 318's; I've owned a couple and had friends who had them and we hammered on those poor things, and they never let us down. Put a four barrel intake and carb on it with a 340 pie plate air cleaner and many will be fooled. I'd also run a purple shaft cam with the 340 specs and that thing should do well. 

[duodec]

Question.  The Hughes Engines Hy-Lift Johnson lifters info says to use only 10w30 or lighter oil even with the stock replacement lifters.  I was in Las Vegas when I used to drive the Challenger, so generally above freezing except occasionally in winter and could get quite hot in summer; I ran 20w50 or straight 40 weight in summer and usually straight 30w or 10w20w40 in the winter.  Is the requirement for 10w30 or lighter just a 'going along with current fuel economy methods' thing or have requirements with old engines with new rebuild parts really changed that much?

[jimynick]

I can't speak to the possibility of newer engines oil requirements, but back in the day, 10W30 was the standard grade that we used in everything, all the time. The idea was that the oil was 10 during cold weather and 30 weight when things got hot and thin oil wouldn't do the trick. The Johnson boys may be old school, too. You won't hurt it running 10W-30, at least not in my opinion. 

[duodec]

Well its not like I'm still in Las Vegas or the desert southwest.  I don't recall precisely where I got the recommendations about straight 40 and 20w50, that was 40 years ago.  The engine burned a little oil but that was due to failing valve stem seals (the stock umbrellas were falling apart; after I replaced them oil consumption was almost eliminated).  I wasn't using 'thicker' oil or supplements to curb oil burning. 

Bet it was my uncle who was a _great_ mechanic then (and its not just because he was my uncle .  If he recommended anything car-related to me, I pretty much followed it.  Never had any issues with the heavier oils.  We'll see what happens when I get this engine redone and go with Hughes' engine oil recommendation after break-in.

[duodec]

Wrote to Hughes Engines to get their recommendation given the info above; they provided but also commented I was the first person ever to admit to keeping the two barrel carb 

[duodec]

Looking at stock rocker arms, pushrods, and shafts.  A lot of the traditional names are still there (Clevite, Perfect Circle, etc) but I'm having a heck of a time determining if they're all just fronting chinese made crap now or if they're still made in the USA or at least a better place than china.  Any info on decent stamped rocker arms and shafts appreciated.

BTW while looking for sources I ran across PRW steel adjustable roller rockers and kits.  They look nice, but since the catalog doesn't say where they're made I am assuming china, likely the same for comp cams and the other HP cam providers.  Anyone familiar with PRW?

Thanks

[jimynick]

Looking in the link you provided, it appears that they are in Illinois, but I'd bet you were right that the stuff comes from China. I may be wrong, but not likely. Just a question, why are you looking at roller rockers for a 2 bbl 318? 

[duodec]

Not really looking for them for the 318.  I'm good with the factory stamped rockers and shaft but trying to determine if anything I can buy new now is not chinesium crap.  But I still want parts for the someday 360 especially if I can find new non-chinese, stock or otherwise; that engine will deserve the better parts.

If I could find a nice set of the adjustable rockers from the 273 engines I'd be happy to put them on the 318 in place of the stamped ones, but they're not easy to find either.  I just really want to keep any 'critical' engine wear parts to a higher standard, not made in china, if there's still an option to do that.  I've sent contact emails to Clevite and a couple other brands asking them about the source for the valvetrain parts since their catalogs and online info do not include that info, but so far no responses other than some 'autoreponder' emails.  So they're probably chinese.