Timing spec for a 440/6 pack

Author Topic: Timing spec for a 440/6 pack  (Read 9034 times)

Offline JohnnyAvocado

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Timing spec for a 440/6 pack
« on: November 05, 2005 - 02:12:04 PM »
Hello Gents,

I tried searching for the spec in the forum but couldn't find it exactly. I have a 440 `Cuda with a 6 pack and am experiencing tremendous pinging. I am using 93 octane. When I checked the timing (with the vac advance disconnected and plugged at the carb, it was reading approx. 10 degrees BTDC. There is a hole in the degree tab right at TDC. Am I supposed to be at TDC at idle? I don't have a spec and was hoping someone knew what it was. Thanks so much for any help.

 




Offline fc7gtx

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Re: Timing spec for a 440/6 pack
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2005 - 03:13:45 PM »
Factory specs for a 1970 390HP 440 sixpak was 5 degrees BTDC. Having yours set at 10 degrees BTDC is fine once you work out your pinging issues.

Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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Re: Timing spec for a 440/6 pack
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2005 - 03:59:29 PM »
Is this engine built to stock specs? Higher compression engines require more octane, and a bigger cam would throw the timing off alittle.

  Mike

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Offline JohnnyAvocado

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Re: Timing spec for a 440/6 pack
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2005 - 04:15:44 PM »
Thanks so much.

Actually the engine is worked a bit. 10.5:1 compression. It does sound like it has a lopey cam in it too.

Thanks again guys. I really appreciate it.

 

Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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Re: Timing spec for a 440/6 pack
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2005 - 04:33:22 AM »
With a bigger cam, the timing has to be advanced a litte, so you might be right on with it. 10.5:1 compression is about the limit for 93 octane.

  Mike

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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Timing spec for a 440/6 pack
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2005 - 10:00:36 AM »
Ideally you need 36-38* total timing at around 3000 RPM  for the best power , the timing at idle is less critical but the engine will respond better with 15* or so at idle But this can cuase pinging as you are experiencing so you may need to use the vacuum advance to lengthen the timing curve & to reduce pinging at lower RPM or you may need a different torque converter [assuming it is an automatic ] to reduce the load on the engine at low RPM where the pinging normally occurs 

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Oldschool

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Re: Timing spec for a 440/6 pack
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2005 - 10:31:05 AM »
With so many unknowns about the enhancements that have been done to this engine, you will probably end up doing what we used to do back in the day.  Don't worry so much about initial timing, advance curve, and total advance numbers, they don't mean much with this engine. What you need to know to make it work is HOW MUCH timing will it take using this fuel.  Get the engine up to operating temperature and put it a load on it. This usually will require a helper in the car while you are under the hood. Advance the timing until the pinging begins, then back it off enough the eliminate the pinging. That is ALL of the timing this motor is going to take, and that is what you really need to know.  You could get more timing in the engine if you could get access to higher octane fuel. If not, you got what you got.  Just my 2 cents.............Oldschool
« Last Edit: November 06, 2005 - 03:39:50 PM by 4cruzin »

Offline JohnnyAvocado

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Re: Timing spec for a 440/6 pack
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2005 - 02:12:33 PM »
Thank you everyone. This is all very helpful.

I have a specific question for Chryco/Oldschool. How do I measure the timing advance curve and the total amount of timing at specified RPM? All I know how to do is check initial. And it sounds like I need to measure more than just initial. Thanks again.

Oldschool

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Re: Timing spec for a 440/6 pack
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2005 - 09:36:00 PM »
Thank you everyone. This is all very helpful.

I have a specific question for Chryco/Oldschool. How do I measure the timing advance curve and the total amount of timing at specified RPM? All I know how to do is check initial. And it sounds like I need to measure more than just initial. Thanks again.

There are a couple of ways to get that info.  If you can find an auto repair shop that still has a functional distributor machine, you can get it set up any way you like. The machine spins the distributor and the operator makes the adjustments to the advance curve on the machine. That would give you the hard data. The problem with that is you could get that done and it might not be what YOUR engine wants.  The cheapest/easiest way would be to buy a timing tape and install it on youe balancer. This isn't quite as accurate as getting the balancer degreed with permanent degree marks.  Install this timing tape on a CLEAN balancer according to the manufacturers directions and hopefully it will stay attached. I have used them before with no problems.  Once you have the tape in place, use your timing light and read the numbers that you see on the tape, It will display advance at idle, and any rpm you desire to check. You either need a timing light with tach built in or run a tach where you can see it while you adjust the rpm and advance.  There are more ways to get this done, but these are the 2 easiest/cheapest.  Just my 2 cents. Hope it works for you.....Oldschool

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Timing spec for a 440/6 pack
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2005 - 10:25:13 PM »
measure 2 3/8" clockwise on your balancer from the TDC mark & put a mark there , that is 36* , the scale on the cover will allow you to adjust from there , I usually set the timing at 3000 rpm

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Offline JohnnyAvocado

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Re: Timing spec for a 440/6 pack
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2005 - 07:30:34 AM »
Thanks again fellas. The timing tape (or measuring 2 3/8" on the balancer) methods really explain it. I was wondering since my tag only went to about 10* or 12*. I do need to get a tach. I saw Snap-On has a timing light with the tach built in. That is tripple schweet. I'll become a timing expert with everyone's help ;) You guys sure do know your stuff.

I lifted the cap off my distributor and saw a star wheel and electronic pickup. Do I still have adjustable weights in the distributor? Or was that only available on distributors with points?

Thanks again. Hopefully I will just have to retard the timing a little to get rid of the pinging. I mean it's bad!

Anyone have any luck with bottled octane booster?

Oldschool

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Re: Timing spec for a 440/6 pack
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2005 - 07:56:26 AM »
See one of my previous posts:
Oldschool
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The "Oldschool" '69 Cuda


     Check this out!!!
« on: November 03, 2005 - 08:52:44 pm »     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know if ya'll know about this product or not.  I thought that this product had been outlawed for many years.  I happened upon this while googling fuel requiremnets and compression ratios.  This company sells tetraethyl lead to consumers complete with mixture ratios to raise octane as high as you need it to be.  Some of you folks with high compression engines or engines that tend to run a little hot need to give it a look.  A little pricey, but if it works, it's worth every penny. The website is www.kemcooil.com
When you get on the site, click on the "Octane booster" link and then the "more info" link.  Pretty cool stuff.......Oldschool

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
 

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Timing spec for a 440/6 pack
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2005 - 11:10:00 AM »
Lucas octane booster is about the best available other than Lead that Oldschool has mentioned
 the distributor still has weights under the advance plate inside the dist

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Offline parrotcuda

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Re: Timing spec for a 440/6 pack
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2005 - 02:44:27 PM »
How hot does your car run? Might want to keep it no hotter than  180-190 even 160 if it will run ok that cool.Is it lean? those high combustion chamber temps can cause pinging.Also pull that dist and make sure the advance plates arent sticking.

Offline JohnnyAvocado

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Re: Timing spec for a 440/6 pack
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2005 - 02:09:04 PM »
Thanks ParrotCuda. Does the distributor need to be pulled completely out to get to the advance plates? How do you access the plates? As I would like to check them. Thanks so much.