Carb theory question

Author Topic: Carb theory question  (Read 1165 times)

Offline mikeinsjc

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 114
Carb theory question
« on: December 11, 2005 - 10:49:01 AM »
Here's a question for all you carb guys. Let's assume I have a 383 with, say a 650 Avenger carb. I run this combo on the dyno, then replace the Avenger with a 650 Demon, and rerun the test. Within the error limits of the dyno, will the results be the same? Is it only the max cfm a carb will flow the only determining factor regarding how much power the carb will yield? Assume they are jetted the same. If jetting is a factor, could I put a 1050 cfm carb on a 273, jet it down, and get it to work properly? Is there such thing as a "fuel metering curve" that makes some carbs perform better than others?
70 cuda
70 challenger
69 6 pack rr




Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36620
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re: Carb theory question
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2005 - 12:01:01 PM »
I will bet you will not repeat the same HP with different 650 carbs  due to design , for example the Holley has a choke & will restict air above the venturi where the Demon doesn`t have the choke & has a smoother entrance to the venturi , I would expect 10-20 HP more with the demon or the Holley HP series over an Avenger carb
 basically I use 2x the ci when picking carbs unless the engine is more modified , for example I have witnessed a gain of 60 hp 3 x when going from an 850 to a 1050 on strong 440s 
 Having said that it is definatly possible to over carb & lose response & efficiency , but as illustrated by the 340+6 they can still be tuned to work well 
« Last Edit: December 11, 2005 - 12:03:10 PM by Chryco Psycho »

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline pink panther

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2547
Re: Carb theory question
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2005 - 07:01:17 PM »
Chryco,
nice to have the " expert" on hand at everyone's calling.  Thanks for all your help!
Scott   -  Member since 9/18/2005

Offline mikeinsjc

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 114
Re: Carb theory question
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2005 - 08:33:51 PM »
So, Chryco, are you saying a 650 cfm carb may not be a true 650 cfm? It would seem to me if there is that much difference in similarly rated carbs, there would be articles dyno-testing carbs like the articles in which they run various intakes on a dyno. But I have never seen any "carb shootout" articles in any of the mopar mags I have.
70 cuda
70 challenger
69 6 pack rr

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36620
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re: Carb theory question
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2005 - 10:43:01 PM »
the 650 rating is simply a air flow measurement taqken at 1.5" of vacuum , so essentially any 650 should flow approx 650 CFM
 the difference is air speed through the carb , veturi shape & ability to pull fuel into the air strem , effectiveness in mixing air & fuel , tuning adjustability with regard to all 7 circuits but also the ability to adjust air bleeds on the idle & main jet circuits
 the accuracy & adjustablilty of al of the above will change how effective the carb is even with the same amount of air passing through the carb. It is not uncommon to see 20-30 HP difference swapping from a ineffecient Eddy Carb to a state of the art Holley HP or Demon with adjustable air bleed circuits etc 

 PP you are welcome ...glad to help

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline Rob C

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 191
Re: Carb theory question
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2005 - 07:37:39 AM »
"I don't know but I've been told" :drunk:

Demons are flow rated wet and Holleys are not. Some people say this accounts for the HP diff.

Quote
Within the error limits of the dyno, will the results be the same? Is it only the max cfm a carb will flow the only determining factor regarding how much power the carb will yield?

This is almost a loaded question, but a good one I think. 1st up, the Demon carb, depending on level of Demon carb, is a more adjustable carb. This adjustabilty allows you to dial in the fuel curve alot better than a standard Holley or Carter. Oe and general performance carbs need not be so adjustable for great performance. But if the fuel flow to the engine is a more refined and optioumized so it can make more power, it'll do so.

If the engine only needs 650 cfm, then swapping out to a 750 may very well not do much of anything on the big end. The actual real world drivabilt can suffer on a too large of a carb. So beware of dyno tests that make use of 750's on 318's.
There can be a muddy low end in the feel of the car. A 650 would serve you better in many ways at the expense of a few HP up top. You could very well end up being faster in the 1/4.
Why? The smaller carb will keep velocity up for better throttle response, atomize fuel better which in turn the engine will burn the fuel better for more power (Torque) down low on the RPM and help with the off the line take offs.
All the old time pros have said it is better to error on the side of smaller than suffer ill results under the bigger is better.
Quote
But I have never seen any "carb shootout" articles in any of the mopar mags I have.
You kind of have. Everytime they swap one out to look for more power. But your right I thikn, there hasn't been a direct carb to carb swap session on a single engine showcasing various carbs.
'73 Cuda, 360, 4psd & 4.10's
'79 Dodge Magnum, 360, 727, 9-1/4 W/3.55's