Author Topic: Good 440 combo's  (Read 4188 times)

Offline Tim440RT

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Good 440 combo's
« on: January 18, 2006 - 08:02:02 PM »
Looking for a nice street/ stip setup. Something with some real nice power when you open it up, but something you can keep tame while you're just out cruising. What kind of setups have worked for you guys. Thanks, Tim
1970 Challenger R/T 440




Offline Follicly Challenged

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Re: Good 440 combo's
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2006 - 08:54:14 PM »
Hi there, need more info as to what you're doing, if you don't mind.

Obviously a pump gas deal, but for example;

Car, E body ?
Auto ?, Std trans ? what stall you'll be running, have already ?, or were thinking of using ? or, do you want suggestions with the engine combo ?
Headers ? what you got or buying ?
Rear Tire diameter ?
Gears ?
Stock fuel line ? 5/16 or 3/8"
Not trying to fudge what you're asking, just trying to "nail it down" so you get some "good" responses as per application.
Also, good to know what the budget is ?

Bob out.




Offline Tim440RT

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Re: Good 440 combo's
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2006 - 04:07:49 AM »
sorry, it's a 70 challenger r/t. I will be running a 4 speed. Don't really have much of anything yet like tires or headers. it has 3/8 fuel line ran right now.  Got the car with 4.10 posi 8 3/4 rear. Budget for the motor is kind of flexible. Let's say something like a "few" thousand for internals and machine work.
1970 Challenger R/T 440

Offline Follicly Challenged

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Re: Good 440 combo's
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2006 - 11:40:56 AM »
Do Not cheap out on machine work, stick with a "blueprint" style shop, PERIOD !

Budget for, and be prepared to pay the extra from the outset. Especially to rework the iron heads, thats why the relative popularity of aftermarket stuff vrs. the cost.

Use the KISS formula "Keep It Simple Stupid", remember these engines have basically been around since the late 50's, many tried, true, and validated approachs refined in the last 50 yrs. Sounds like you really only want 425-475 H.P, easily "do"able with basically stock stuff and heads.

The following are my opinions only, no wars wanted

ANY year 440 core, prefer "steel crank", "0" balance stuff, any "cast crank" stuff fine also, but remember the external balance for your flywheel.

-Target < 6,000 rpm shift point, actual 9.9/10:1 W/ this cam(230's) and 92 Octane @ 2000 ft elevation, drop .2 per 1000 ft elev.(remember, traffic tie-ups)

-Stock LY rods W/arp bolts OK, or,
I-beam cheapies from "various preferred", may be more cost effective, plus allow switch to .990" Chebby Pins(weight, and free power)

-Main Studs, MUST align Hone afterward, (blueprint shop), .003" vertical clrc W/ Clevitte  full gr. only

-Hypereu"junk"tic F.T. Pistons @ 2.02-2.06" comp Dist-OK,

  Prefer "cheapy" 4032 alloy forged FT @ same Dist., various Manu's, all ~4-6 cc flycut volume.
1.094" pins OK, Pinfit @.0008" in Piston, > .001" crush in stock rod, or,
if full float use .001" Rod and Piston W/aftermarket Rods using the .990" Chebby Pins. ( I ain't a "fan" of the quench style KB's on this style engine, ain't needed for this IMHO, no wars wanted)

-Moly rings as per Piston, BRUSHS /cork-wipe ! (total seals ain't gonna do SQUAT ! lest we start a hole new thread on that alone), let it LEAK a bit ! SO WHAT !  Personal preference.
Anybody seen what those cylinders do @ temp/load ? NOT ME, however,
Anybody ever heated their honing Oil, and honed a Block @ 220 deg F and breathed those vapours ?
WE DID ! Like I said, Total Seals don't do SQUAT, unless you do that !  IMHO.

-USE a T/plate(blueprint shop again)

-Mock-up, and deck block "equal & square" for 0 - .020 downhole @TDC, depends on above piston used.

-Rod Clrc. @ .0025: vertical, Clevitte CB527 "P" brg's for stock rod, "H" for aftermarket.

-1/2" HEMI oiling mod.
-HEMI resto 6 qt. pan and Pickup, add slosh baffle if not present from MOPAR.
-Wndage Tray

-High Volume pump, Melling. Above clrc's will provide idle pres @ 40 psi, rpm @ relief usually @ 70-75 psi HOT using good 10W40 Pennsylvania grade motor Oil. Stay away from "store bought", on sale "goopy-lube" ! Very high in parafins as a filler.
DO ADD "GM", yes "GM", "OES"  to the "Penns" stuff, even them, are getting lower in metals for their additive pkg's.

-MOPAR 284/484 is fine, there's better out there, no argueing wanted (be a thread by itself), but this is "KISS" , it'll work fine ! Put in @ no later than 106-7 deg., shift @ 57-5800/6000 when 'ya miss.
-Cloyes
-Heavy duty "thick wall" stock rockers OK, adjustable aftermarket preferred for when 'ya miss with you're stick !(actual 1.5 ratio), depends on valve hts. attained with headwork for lifter preload.

Pretty "basic' build so far ain't it ?

Now for the Heads

-Any later casting, 906 OK, but 346 & 452 preferred(remember the lift, we ain't racing, well OK, maybe mid 12's, but that ain't RACING !)
-GOOD QUALITY rebuild, HONE-FIT valves @.001"/.0014", a MUST to maintain seat widths.
- 2.08/1.74 OK, big valves OK too, exh. first if you do !,  but not absolutely required.

FOR STOCK VALVE SIZES ONLY;
- Intake 75 throat blended into port bowl, 60/45/30/15, 60 @ .100"/.035"/ ~ .070/"touch to clean", seat @ .015" from edge of valve.
-Intake Valve @ 45/30 backcut
-Trick here is DON'T sink the valves in the chamber for the 30 ! Retain nominal Valve dimension "out the head up top", with a stock valve length !, without cutting the crap outa the tips to get back down in range. (need "puss" castings)
-Exhaust Valves @ 50 Deg seat, 40 backcut
-Exh seats @ 80 cutter/65/50/30, blend & widen port only, with steep as possible short(nothing there anyways, but it'll find it's own way out under pressure.
-Do whatever to the Intake & exh. port window openings to straighten & cleanup, bigger, not really required, but don't hurt anything.
- 110# seat pressure on springs, correct rate for cam.
-Add a decent Intake and 750 carb for the RPM
-Tune accordingly.

** If ya can't find good enough head castings(sunk valves), go get some somewhere !
Remember, GOOD iron heads, done well, will dink you a "K" or more, with porting. Hence the popularity of aftermarket aluminum stuff, and rightly so.
But if you go Aluminum, add up to 3/4 point of compression to above to compensate for the parasitic heat loss in the combustion process.

Just my opinion, like I said, no wars wanted. 440 engines will do what their "APPOSED 'TA" when people pay attention. BASICALLY, Just GET ACTUALLY CLOSE to 10:1, more for aluminum, NOT THEORETICALLY, build, "Blueprint" the bottom end very well, and get a "pro" head guy.
"1", even "1.1" Horsepower per cubic inch is well attainable with a Hydraulic cam.

Hope this gives you some ideas, just my opinion, hope others chime in here    Bob out.



Offline Tim440RT

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Re: Good 440 combo's
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2006 - 02:08:05 PM »
What do you think about 516 heads? And what would be a nice piston choice with the closed chambers? Most likely going to keep the stock rods on there also ...Thanks again for your input...... Tim
1970 Challenger R/T 440

Offline Follicly Challenged

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Re: Good 440 combo's
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2006 - 10:15:31 PM »
Can't give you an opinion on the 516, just never played much with them, they got "passed over" for more preferred and plentiful(for us), 915 castings. We flowed 'em a few times years ago, pretty "dismal". They were flowed in many "muscle mag" articles over the years, same results.

Anything promising in the flow with them, was mistaken as "swirl", when really, all it was doing was washing the spark plug REAL HARD ! Flow is Flow though, I imagine they can be made to work, But why ?

Not that they don't work, seen guys running low 10 sec E bodies using them,(Reg Wilson), but also, seen guys using just about any head run low 10's.

Hopefully someone with more experience with them(516's) will chime in.

As for a piston, they're the same chamber size as a 915, so CC the particular set you're contemplating,(72-77, higher ?), depends how many rewinds over the years, they can vary, but you'd probably be looking in the 1.99-2.00" Comp. dist. Piston, deck the block accordingly for the same CR's as discussed.

Hope this helps

Offline Follicly Challenged

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Re: Good 440 combo's
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2006 - 06:48:40 AM »
To clarify, by "deck the block accordingly as discussed", with a 1.99-2.00" comp dist. Piston that means leave the piston downhole @ TDC .060-.080.

Thought I should add that.

Didn't wanna see anybody go decking their block .080,   OUCH !

Offline pandamarie

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Re: Good 440 combo's
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2006 - 12:39:24 PM »
The engine in my Challenger is built almost dead on the way folicly mentioned, some cam, I had the block shaved to get 10.5 compression and never had a pinging problem, 6 pack set up with hooker super comps, and used arp studs one the head and bottom end and thier rod bolts too with polished and shot peened LY rods and a nitrided crank, everything balanced and blueprinted, Had the heads cnc ported with 2.14 1.81 manley stainless valves,  All this was done 8 years ago and I and the other owner that I just got the car back from have never had a problem with it, except the carbs.
I have never formally raced it, but blew the doors off a 69 shelby mustang 500 that the guy was showing me time slips of 12.27s at the car show, all he saw was my tail lights and we raced for about a mile. he could not keep up. Im also running a 2800-3000 stall converter and the car is used as a daily driver and will get 17mpg on the freeway.
1938 packard 120
1948 lincoln convertible coupe(1 of 16)
69 charger
70 challenger R/T 440 6 pac
71 challenger 340 R/T 4 speed
2-1961 nash metropolitans
forgive wifes 75 vette
2002 dakota 4.7

Oldschool

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Re: Good 440 combo's
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2006 - 01:46:14 PM »
FC,

Your opinion is welcome here.  But please keep in mind that this topic is for "Proven" combos only.  The place to post opinions might be "Engine and Other Go Fast Goodies".  The idea behind this topic is to have a kwik place for our members to access information about a particular "Proven" engine combo.  This idea serves two purposes:  1) to take some of the burden off of the tech answer folks who repeatedly answer the same questions. "Proven"  combos will always be stored here for our members to reference, and  2) to potentially save members money and time that would needlessly be spent when "guessing" what a particular combo will do.  They can look at the combos' AND the attached documentation to support the claims of the person making the post. As time and the number of "proven" combos get posted, this resource will be very valuable.  This topic is in it's infancy and I would like to see it get started off on the right track. The 528 Hemi Combo post, has complete details AND supporting documentation.  Also ANY questions that a member might have that are not answered in the post, they can PM me and I will provide any additional info.  Not trying to start a war here, just please provide documentation so the claims will be validated, and our members will have a clear, documented path to the results they desire.  Just my 0.02.  Thanks!  ............... :cooldancing:  Oldschool

Offline AprilsPink72Cuda

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Re: Good 440 combo's
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2006 - 01:51:37 PM »
 :iagree:

I am sure nobody thinks you are starting a war, We all know that is not like you!   :bigsmile:

Offline Follicly Challenged

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Re: Good 440 combo's
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2006 - 09:45:26 AM »
Oldschool, thanks very much for your insight, and care, in regards to the validity as "proven" for these combos. I couldn't agree more with what you're saying.

I've sent you a PM, hopefully, you can give me some further insights, into the correct ways in which we may be able to enrich this section on the board.

Thx, FC out.

kudakidd

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Re: Good 440 combo's
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2006 - 09:42:42 AM »
OK Tim, This is a proven combo as I use it in a 68 Charger with a 4 speed and 3.54's in the Dana. The car runs 12.80's at 107 mph.

750 cfm Holley DP (4779)
Edelbrock Performer RPM
Hooker 1-7/8" comp headers
Stock elect. ignition
Racer Brown cam 286 degrees duration, .485" lift
9.5:1 Comp ratio
Bone stock bottom end
The car tips the scales at 3,780 lbs (w/o me in it)
hope this helps

Offline GoMango

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Re: Good 440 combo's
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2006 - 08:23:24 PM »
Since we are giving out proven combos, here's what I used in my 6-pack Challenger:

Stock 6-pack setup with intake gasket matched
906 heads with bowls cleaned up, good valve job and ports gasket match (no major port work)
Stock TRW 10.5:1 6-pack pistons with std 440 rods
Mopar 292/509 cam
Turbo Action "J" converter (approx 3500-3800 stall) with manual valve body
Stock crank with windage tray
Hooker super comp 2-1/8" headers with exhaust to rear housing

My car is 3400# (without me) with super stock springs and 4.10 (1/4mile) or 4.30 (1/8mile) gears. It ran 11.85 @ 115 on 285/60 McCreary (now American) sticky dot tires.
It is a very basic combo, but worked REALLY well for what it is.
I would say back off on the cam/gear/converter a little and it would be a good streetable combo. I've drove this car around, just not too far from home :naughty:

Man after talking about this, I wanna race again... :banghead:
70 Challenger R/T
(Back on the road--1st time since '96)