Building an Engine

[RDF]

I need some advice on building a motor for my 'Cuda.  I've got a 73 'Cuda (auto on column) with a 360 in it (from 1974 I believe) and I would like to get a 440 to replace it.  I would also be putting in either a 4-speed trani or a Kielser 5-speed, whichever my wallet can afford at the time  .

I used to build motors about 15 years ago, but I've forgot most everything since now I work in the computer industry .  Ideally, I'd like to get 500+ HP out of my motor .  I've looked at the Proven Engine Combo section of the site and there's only 1 real reference to a motor, the 496 stroker.  I'd like to know what people have for a setup and their current HP from that motor.  I know it's a lot to ask, but I want to make sure I do the motor right and not make many mistakes.  What does everyone like in the way of Cam's, Crank's, lifters, heads (aluminum (sp?) or not), carb(s), compression ratio, etc.

The car originally had a 318 in it, so I'm sure I may have to change the A-Frame on it to fit a bigger, heavier motor.  I'll also be trying to upgrade the front suspension as well.

Thanks!

[matt63]

You should be able to get conversion motor mounts from Schmacher and be able to keep the K member.  On a minimum budget a fairly stock 440 should be able to do 500 hp easily.  The rest is based upon your budget and driveability/performance expections.  You might want to check out the Mopar magazines as well as Comp Cams and Hughes Engines websites as they have articles on combos they have tested.

[Chryco Psycho]

I have been meaning to get some engine combos posted since FC is gone
I have build a number of iron head combos that will make 325-350 RWHP using stock ported iron heads & even stock iron exhaust manifolds these engine correct to gross HP by multiplying by 1.6 on the dyno I use so 325 x 1.6 = 520 gross HP
 generally I use stock steel crank , stock LY rods , Speed Pro L2355F pistons , windage tray , new Melling oil pump , new rod bolts , 6 qt oil pan , , I would need a lot more info about where you want the powerband , what the use of the engine is etc to help with head ,cam, intake selection as they all have to match to make the engine work properly . As far as the carb goes I like the Holley, Proform style  & recommend at least 800 cfm on any 440 , I have withness gains of 60+ HP going from an 850 to a 1050 dominater on performance 440s on a dyno   

[RDF]

Thanks for all the tips...Chryco, this car is mainly a 3 day a week driver, mainly for pleasure and some shows (once I get the body in a little better shape).  I would probably never take it to the track to run the 1/4 mile, but I'd like to be able to romp on that gas every once in a while and know that I'll be thrown back in my seat and put my 5-point seat belts to good use .  Not looking for long HP, meaning not looking to get tons of HP passed 125mph (if that makes sense).  I love the sound of a good motor ideling and you can hear the cam (like Burpin's old cuda).

I really appreciate the info and tips because this is going to help me build a great motor.

[moper]

If you go from 360 to 440, all you need is the steel nmount adaptor brackets. The rubber mounts are the same parts. THe trans deal will be expensive either way. If it was me, spend for the Keisler, and budget some time to debug it. Dont forget to tell them your car is an auto. You'll need other parts from them. You may need to trim the column shift level on your column, or replace it with floor shift model to clear headers too. Being that the budget was mentioned in the posting..How much do you have to spend on a 500hp 440? Bear in mind, you'll need ignition, fuel system, radiator, and headers/exh for it. If possible, replace the torsion bars too. You dont have to, but it wil ldrive a bit better if you upgrade them slightly.

[RDF]

If you go from 360 to 440, all you need is the steel nmount adaptor brackets. The rubber mounts are the same parts. THe trans deal will be expensive either way. If it was me, spend for the Keisler, and budget some time to debug it. Dont forget to tell them your car is an auto. You'll need other parts from them. You may need to trim the column shift level on your column, or replace it with floor shift model to clear headers too. Being that the budget was mentioned in the posting..How much do you have to spend on a 500hp 440? Bear in mind, you'll need ignition, fuel system, radiator, and headers/exh for it. If possible, replace the torsion bars too. You dont have to, but it wil ldrive a bit better if you upgrade them slightly.

I was definately going to replace the headers, radiator, ignition and others....that's a great point to bring up that most people often overlook.  I didn't have a budget in mind, I don't really have a 'time frame' that it needs to be completed by, but I don't want to spend 5k on a motor unless that's what it takes now a days to get me there.  I read in another post about someone going from a 340 to a 440 and someone mentioned the same thing about the torsion bars.  I'll keep that in mind.
I planned to buy a block to start, tear it down (if neccessary) and then send it to the shop to me fluxed and checked over for cracked, etc.  Then I figure I'd start with what people recommend and continue from there, mainly taking advice from those who know what they are talking about.  I'll see if I can start a Thread on my building process and take pics, post thoughts/ideas/comments and troubles.

[moper]

I have a couple going on right now. One is for me, kind of an experiment you might say. But it could easily be a twin to other builds I've had success with. CP doesnt like hypereutectic pistons for his. I think other than that difference, our builds are similar. Pay a good shop what it costs to get good work done, and get everything that a performance buildup entails done. I'll post in the builds section what I've done in the past. For here, I'll tell you the main difference between the builds is piston design, butt hat change brings additional labor for the desired result. My goals are run on 89-91 unledaded (that means 10% ethanol in CT), iron open chamber heads, static ratio of 10.8:1, and power outputs in the 500+hp@5800 and 500+tq@3500. A nice, solid buildup with good real world uses. My experiment is the use of quench dome KB pistons to get 10.8:1 with a set of 452 casting heads. Fitting the domes and making sure things are "right" are crutial to getting detonation resistance with those pistons. Hence the "experiment..lol. I do plan to put it on an engine dyno as time allows, but being it's for me..It gets done last..lol. I do have a 440 listed over there already, with iron closed chambers and pump gas that make sthe torque, but is a little shy of the hp I want. I would caution you, $5K is a decent number, but you want to be careful as to what you choose to do. The trick is the desired result, wihtout paying too much..lol. Not paying for stuff that may not help, or not paying for something that does. Most of my builds when you look at what you need to make a complete running engine, are higher than $5K. Anyone can build a long block for that. But a long block needs another bunch of parts to fire up.

[matt63]

There is a benefit to getting attaining a  "zero quench" design meaning that the piston comes to within 0.040" of the head at TDC.  Any greater clearance decreases the benefit very quickly i.e. 0.060" doesn't work.  This design generally requires zero-decking which could cost extra (it did for me) and modern closed chamber heads.  The zero quench design helps power and increases detonation resistance.  Careful piston and head/combustion chamber selection is required.  It was more of a trial and error process than an experimental one for me as I had to mill all of the pistons after assembling the short block, measuring how proud the pistons were at TDC and disassembling it.

[moper]

Well, this is usiong the pistons that are supposed to work with the big open iron chambers. But, to this point, I've paid to have the factory forged crank indexed, stroke corrected, and the block square decked (not same as decking), and the rod lengths matched to make sure every piston comes proud of the deck the exact same amount. I'm up to mocking up, and claying every chameber now, to see how far I have to mill the heads, and what has to be done to the chambers as far as smoothing and polishing to get the .032-.035 quench I want. As I said, experiment..I can use modern heads and dish or flat tops for less effort at this point...lol.

[matt63]

Can you get any quench effect with open heads?  When I did my mock-up I found that the piston projection above the deck was all over the place (after decking).  It's hard to know whether it's the pistons, rods, crank, etc.  I just ended up measuring and milling each piston to get the zero deck height.

[Chryco Psycho]

rod length will be different for each so when they are machined a good machinist will take material out off the rod or cap & try to even the length up which helps to even the piston height between cylinders

[moper]

That's exactly why I've already paid to have all the "fixing" which is basically just true blueprinting done. If you add up the tolerances in all the parts, you will end up over .005" difference and that's assuming the deck is perfectly square decked. Which in most cases, it aint. I've had blocks that were over .028" out of truw after the engine was rebuilt and the block was "decked to clean it up". That means the factory decking was off, and the guy that leveled it by eye and milled it made it worse. So now, the block is .010 shorter than blueprint spec, and the pistons are popping out by that amount. Not a huge deal really, unless you are trying to set the quench at .035...lol. The reason it takes so much time, to assemble is, the lower end is one set of parts..Then the heads are next. Chamber depth, valve seat depth, and casting is all with the same lose tolerances. So when the bottom end is all set up right, I have to fit the heads to the lower end. That means equalize the volumes to the largest one, and then clay all of them to get the amount to mill that leaves the right quench clearance for all of them. The pistons have a large "quench pad" on the top. It comes up and fills the large open area of the chamber, effectively forcing the mixture to the spark plug and keeping the true chamber volume small and tight.