Author Topic: Reading Spark Plugs like a Horoscope  (Read 2242 times)

Offline zerfetzen

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Reading Spark Plugs like a Horoscope
« on: November 17, 2006 - 09:13:20 PM »
I've heard that some people are good enough they read your spark plugs like your horoscope, telling you a lot about your motor.  I pulled mine, and saw pitch black.  That's got to be some serious carbon build-up, and must surely mean it's running too rich.  I'm guessing the solution is to decrease the jet size by 2, then by 1 until it's right.  I guess I'll buy a jet set for my Holley 750 DP sooner than I thought.

The pics below show the replacement plugs (new Autolite 85's...I couldn't get Champion RJ12YC's without ordering them) alongside the Bosch Platinum's this guy put in the motor when he rebuilt it.  I should probably gap these Autolite 85's from .035 to .045 due to the hotter MSD coil.

The third pic is after I scraped on it for a while.  I thought I heard somewhere that someone can tell a lot about a motor by the color of the metal of the plug, or something like that.  If you can, I'm all ears.  Cheers.

PS
Besides re-jetting it, is there anything else I should do.  I couldn't believe how black they were.




Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Reading Spark Plugs like a Horoscope
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2006 - 12:20:07 AM »
try down jetting , also check the power valve port , if it is wet the carb is leaking internally into the the vacuum side of the power valve & that could be the whole problem without rejetting , with plugs that black I woul dbe looking at more like 4 sizes smaller if the power valve is dry
 Make SURE the float level is set properly too before pulling the carb apart , the are nto preset from the factory 

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Offline tactransman

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Re: Reading Spark Plugs like a Horoscope
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2006 - 04:10:42 AM »
very good job on the pics! :thumbsup:
Terry-tactransman 
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Offline dodge freak 2

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Re: Reading Spark Plugs like a Horoscope
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2006 - 09:28:11 AM »
Those are BLACK. Your float might be too high, most holleys are not 4 sizes off, if anthing they are lean, expect for the HP and race carbs. A while back my plugs were kind of clean but some were a little black. I was using a 8 year old MSD 6a box with a 1 year old coil and almost new spark plug wires and cap, rotor. All I did was to upgrade to the MSD 7al box and 8251 coil and the motor seem to run better all the time. I then put new plugs in and after 1 year and about 5000 miles later I replaced them. All the plugs were super clean! They were worn, the gap went to .040 to .045-.050 but they all seem to be firing great. My motor does smoke sometimes when I first start it, worn guilds I think. I think you need more than a stronger spark but I be surprise if they look super clean without a great spark box and coil firing them

Offline zerfetzen

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Re: Reading Spark Plugs like a Horoscope
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2006 - 10:17:17 AM »
Thanks for the good replies.  Chryco, a couple questions before I tear into it.  I'm sure I'll need some gaskets or such, do you recommend a particular rebuild kit?  I was looking at (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLY%2D37%2D1544&N=700+4294925239+4294857013+115&autoview=sku).  Thanks for suggesting the power valve, I'll post when I find out.  I was going to do a burnout tomorrow for pics, so I'll tear down the carb in the evenings this upcoming week.

Before I tear into it, I just took the screw off the top of the primary float bowl to spy the fuel level.  I couldn't get directly over it, but didn't see anything down in from the best angle I could get.  I stuck a real thin screwdriver down in there, and it only went in an inch or so before it stopped.  It was real hard to see, but seemed like there was gas on the tip, but I couldn't tell you how far.

The last time the car was fired up was last night when I switched from Valvoline 20/50 to Castrol Syntech.  That stuff outright rocks, my first startup after the change, it was totally obvious that it started easier, much easier.

What do you think about the float, and any suggestions for a rebuild kit for this application?  I've done the most minor adjustments on carbs before, but I've never tore in to one before, so I'm a tad new to this.  Thanks.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2006 - 10:29:27 AM by zerfetzen »

Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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Re: Reading Spark Plugs like a Horoscope
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2006 - 10:46:41 AM »
Once upon a time I had to jet-down the primaries of my double-pumper 3 sizes, so this isn't unusual. It varies from car to car though.

You have to check the float level from the side of the fuel bowls. There is a screw on the passenger's side of each fuel bowl that you have to remove. Then stick a Q-tip or something thin in there to see if the fuel is level with the screw you just removed. If the float level is too high, then gas should come gushing out at you. I'm sorry I have made this as clear as mud for you.  :pullinghair:

  Mike
« Last Edit: November 18, 2006 - 11:13:42 AM by MEKrunner »

Mike

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Offline dodge freak 2

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Re: Reading Spark Plugs like a Horoscope
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2006 - 02:12:49 PM »
What I do is rev the motor to 3000 rpms or so and let up and shut it off. Then quickly remove both sight plugs. If it is right no gas should come out but when you rock the car gas comes out. Thats how I do it. If its ok and it seems to idle ok, jet it down--yeah like 2-4 sizes. If it idles rough get a new power valve and mettering block gasket for it. You need a fuel bowl gasket and 4 gaskets for the bowl screws. Thats it, no kit needed.

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Reading Spark Plugs like a Horoscope
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2006 - 09:40:37 PM »
I agree , you can buy packs of the individual gaskets without a kit , if you buy gaskets or a kit I prefer to use the real Holley parts with blue gaskets 
 there is a brass sight plug on the passenger side of the float bowl remove it While runnign & the gas should be just at the bottom of the hole if it is trickling out it needs to be set lower
 Syntech rocks !!

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Offline moper

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Re: Reading Spark Plugs like a Horoscope
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2006 - 10:44:36 AM »
Being that it's a DP carb too, I usually recommend rebuilding at least once every 2-3 summers. Air bleeds get crudded up, and things atart to seap here and there. Also, all that soot can be a result of a lot of different things. Step one, dont use Bosch Platinums. I have never found a set that I could read well. They soot up very fast. Make sure your power valve is the right rating. Many, many street cars have the wrong one in and they foul the plugs much faster than they have to. I also had several with MP ignitions that ran the wrong balast resistor. So the coil was not charging fully and the resulting spark was weak. To properly read a plug, you will need a nice small magnifier lens, and a good source of light. You can tell if you have detonation or pinging (even if you cant hear it), you can tell if rings or valve seals are bad, if the fuel you're using is bad, and if the tune up is on or not.

Offline zerfetzen

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Re: Reading Spark Plugs like a Horoscope
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2006 - 12:14:31 PM »
How do I know if the power valve rating is appropriate?  I have a MSD ignition, and am not sure right off hand that the ballast resistor is being used, but I can figure that out and replace if necessary.  I've saved the plugs and have them in order.  The one I showed before (#3) is the blackest of them all.  The others are better, but none look as good as I would hope.

Once I have a magnifier lens, how can I tell if it's detonating, if the rings/valve seals are ok, fuel is ok, or tune-up is off?  How can I read these?

Offline dodge freak 2

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Re: Reading Spark Plugs like a Horoscope
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2006 - 12:37:43 PM »
The MSD boxes use no resistor what so ever. As for reading the plugs, I just look if they are clean or not, if they are clean I just replace them. I think pinging shows spots, like tiny pieces missing. I would use a compression gauge for checking the rings and valves.

Offline moper

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Re: Reading Spark Plugs like a Horoscope
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2006 - 01:54:31 PM »
I dont have pics..But, detonation or pinging removes tinsy specs of piston when it occurs. They get deposited on the porcelain, and you can see tiny silver flecks. (hence the light and magnifier)  Oil will show similar to fuel, but be more black an din extreme cases, wet. It also builds up much faster than ncarbon, so if you look down in the recess between the porcelain and body, you'll see it looking like black mud down in there. Lean will keep the plugs looking brand new. Once it's been run, you should see light deposits (brownish or greyish depending on fuel) on the ceramic. Where they appear in terms of hieght can tell you if it's close but lean. The heat will discolor the steel body inside by the porcelain in a ring. If that's right up near the edge, that may mean your timing is retarded, or your octane may be too high. Conversly, a ring a tthe tip, or on the ground electrode can mean too advanced or not enough octane. The down side..Any time spent at idle, or issues like having to pump the gas when starting, can ruin the "blank slate" of a new plug. Many racers I know pop a brandi new one in, makew a pass, shut it off and coast off the track, then pull it on the return road to avoid any "contamination". I run NGK Race plugs because they are easier to read for me. You will find different manufacturers will "stain" and color differently too. I hate Bosch..lol. There's guys that have years of doing this, and they can tune beter than an LM1 and a chassis dyno..lol.

Offline zerfetzen

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Re: Reading Spark Plugs like a Horoscope
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2006 - 06:22:39 PM »
Lots of good info in there Moper, thanks and I'm saving it so that in time I can learn to read 'em.  Here are my observations:

I don't think it is detonating because there are no small silver specks.  Whew!

There is some black sludgy wetness between the porcelain and inner plug.  It is worst on #2, and when I took that one off, I'm sad to say that I did not have to use a tool to remove it, but turned it by hand.  I thought this black was caused when the plugs are loose...but it did get on some others that were tight.  Hmmm.

Thanks again.

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Reading Spark Plugs like a Horoscope
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2006 - 12:53:35 AM »
witha vacuum guage measure your manifold vacumm idling warm in gear , if it is more than 8" you need a 6.5 power valve or lower to keep it closed , 6.5 is normally stock , if your vacuum is lower than 8 " YOU NEED TO BE AT LEAST 1.5 " LOWER than your vacuum reading so if it reads 6" I would use a 4.5 power valve 
 I use Champ plugs BTW

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