Author Topic: What to do........ (Read 7364 times)

Hot_Rodder · « **Reply #15 on:** January 13, 2007 - 09:55:33 AM »

Then this kit would be the suggested max for a 400 motor block....
400 >> 470. (3.915" stroke/6.535" rod)
This kit is a great choice for an engine that will see a lot of street use, but still make some serious power. The low deck, 3.915" stroke version of our Platinum Series crank used in this kit has the smaller 2.200" (big block Chevy sized) journals, and the counterweights are finished at the smaller "B" engine size, to ensure they will drop right into the block with no counterweight clearancing issues. Depending on the block used, many of our customers find this kit drops right in with no modifications whatsoever! Please note that Clevite's only main bearings available for 400 engines are the "P" series bearings. These bearings may require slight modification to clear the larger radius on our cranks. Most shops will be able to do this without a problem. See our Bearings page for details. We keep all the kits listed below normally on our our shelf and ready to ship, usually within 24 hours!

Kit options:
Rings and Bearings package deal:
Add Clevite 77's top of the line performance chamfered rod bearings and full groove mains. (MS876P and CB743H)
AND Childs & Albert or Total Seal ductile iron Plasma-Moly File Fit rings. All 3 items (rod bearings, main bearings and ring set) are just: $248!!

For some quick math, that makes the whole stroker kit with premium chamfered rod & main bearings and rings, come to $1447!! ($1199+$248=$1447!)

Additional Kit options:
Add Clevite's "TRI ARMOR" moly graphite coating to the above rod bearings: $64
Upgrade to Childs & Albert Zero Gap "ZGS" or Total Seal Ductile Iron Premium gapless Rings (add to above): $175
Upgrade to I beam rods with ARP2000 bolts: $50
Upgrade to Platinum Series Dished Pistons: $NO CHARGE

Again, as before, different compression ratios listed for different combustion chambers and pistons, so check out the website. They range from a 9.19:1 compression ratio to a 13.10:1 compression ratio.... I think the Stage 6 heads are a 78cc as cast head. So.... The compression want be as high, but I know that, unless I run some kind of super/turbo charger or something to boost the comp, which I'm not, then I want the minimum to be a 10:1, which there part # listing is the 5073 which looks like the one that may be better? Here's the listing for it:
Bore Size: Piston: Comp. Height: Distance below deck: 78cc head compression:
4.375 (.035 over) -4 cc Flat Top 1.485" -0.002" 11.41:1

I've always factored in a roughly 1 point compression loss with aluminum heads, so I'm thinking it's probably gonna be somewhere around a 10.41:1 compression

So, any comments on this one then, wether it's gonna be automatic or manual, well, that'll come a little after.... I'm still wondering about cam selection....
Maybe this camshaft? http://www.holley.com/60304.asp

I figure that this one is probably just a little bit too much: http://www.holley.com/60334.asp

and I wouldn't want my neighbors turning into a bunch of

when I go to leave

.
And intake: http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/manifolds/chrysler_bb_perf-rpm.shtml Part # 7193
Since I had one of these carb's on my old Charger, and liked it a lot, I think I'll want to stick with it, but what cfm, i'm thinking maybe a 750 cfm rating? http://www.barrygrant.com/demon/default.aspx?page=10

That'll be enough for now...

Chryco Psycho · « **Reply #16 on:** January 13, 2007 - 11:49:48 AM »

the 2 cams you are looking at are totally different , 1 is a hydraulic with a 2500-6500 powerband , it may not make enough vacuum for power brakes , using an Engle grind you can get the same lift with less duration , the second cam is a solid roller cam , this is very expensive to set up costing over $1000 for cam lifters adjustable rockers , custom pushrods & you will need a bronze dist drive which will wear out every 10,000 miles & cost about $100
the Demon carb will work but it is too small , 470 x 2 = 940 so to not limit the mid to top end power

Hot_Rodder · « **Reply #17 on:** January 17, 2007 - 05:07:22 AM »

Quote from: Chryco Psycho on January 13, 2007 - 11:49:48 AM

the 2 cams you are looking at are totally different , 1 is a hydraulic with a 2500-6500 powerband , it may not make enough vacuum for power brakes , using an Engle grind you can get the same lift with less duration , the second cam is a solid roller cam , this is very expensive to set up costing over $1000 for cam lifters adjustable rockers , custom pushrods & you will need a bronze dist drive which will wear out every 10,000 miles & cost about $100
the Demon carb will work but it is too small , 470 x 2 = 940 so to not limit the mid to top end power

Chryco, as far as the cam, I know I'm not gonna go with the roller set up b/c of the price of the lifters alone, those suckers are high, but if you got the

for it, and need it, then by any and all means, go for it, but man oh man

. The hydraulic flat tappet was the one I was thinking of as far as spec's, but as far as the vacuum, then the Engle would probably be a better choice. Then there's the carb. I have yet to sit down, and figure what size to run, but the formula that I have to calculate it involves c.i.d., cam spec's, max rpm, and a couple of other things, to find the proper size carb..... Once you figure that out, just round it up to the closest rating. As far as the Demons go, I had heard that they flow 15% more that what they are rated for, don't ask me where, can't remember...

Anyway, the second listed cam, I was just joking about, at the moment I don't remember the spec's of both cams, but I want to say that the second one listed is bigger... Probably to big for what I'm gonna go with... Anyway

.

moper · « **Reply #18 on:** January 17, 2007 - 09:42:37 AM »

Dont take this the wrong way, but you are making my head spin

. The 470 is cool. 3.9 stroke is nice, and it's light. I would avoid MP heads for several issues, the easiest/cheapest head to run are Edelbrocks. As far as a cam, it depends on the heads. typically for a stroke like that (ignore the cubic inch number) I would shop around for a cam with around 240� @ .050, with lift in the .550-570 area. In an hydraulic the XE285HL would be a nice cam, and needs nothign fancy when paired with the RPM heads. Just the MP shafts and HD stamped rockers. I would not run a hydraulic if you need power brakes...The XS282S would be a decent solid that should run your brakes just fine. For an intake, the Holley SD isnt bad, nor is the M1 single plane, but I would go with a Performer RPM as my 1st choice for double duty (street/strip) with mild gearing. For a carb, look for at least an 850cfm 4150 series, or the HP 930cfm vaccum secondary(my 1st choice).

Hot_Rodder · « **Reply #19 on:** January 21, 2007 - 10:06:06 AM »

Quote from: moper on January 17, 2007 - 09:42:37 AM

Dont take this the wrong way, but you are making my head spin . The 470 is cool. 3.9 stroke is nice, and it's light. I would avoid MP heads for several issues, the easiest/cheapest head to run are Edelbrocks. As far as a cam, it depends on the heads. typically for a stroke like that (ignore the cubic inch number) I would shop around for a cam with around 240� @ .050, with lift in the .550-570 area. In an hydraulic the XE285HL would be a nice cam, and needs nothign fancy when paired with the RPM heads. Just the MP shafts and HD stamped rockers. I would not run a hydraulic if you need power brakes...The XS282S would be a decent solid that should run your brakes just fine. For an intake, the Holley SD isnt bad, nor is the M1 single plane, but I would go with a Performer RPM as my 1st choice for double duty (street/strip) with mild gearing. For a carb, look for at least an 850cfm 4150 series, or the HP 930cfm vaccum secondary(my 1st choice).

Dont take this the wrong way, but you are making my head spin

. .....

It's cool, I aint trying to, just many questions, and if they are not asked, then may end up spending money on stuff that's not needed, when you can use it somewhere else. Plus with all the combinations there are now, I'm trying to find out what may be the best for a street/strip car, that will apparently have a 400 cid stroker motor, listed above, for the bottom end, but the question is, how about the top end? The brakes that I'm looking to run on it will be something like these:
Front: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SSB%2DA153%2D3&N=700+4294922533+4294839009+4294822015+4294908078+4294908074+4294840394+4294925081+115&autoview=sku part #SSB-A153-3
Rear: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SSB%2DA155&N=700+4294922533+4294839009+4294822018+4294908078+4294908074+115&autoview=sku part #SSB-A155
These are sort of the brakes that I'm leaning toward.... Anyhow, I'll check those cams out. As far as the heads, what's wrong with the new style Mopar Stage 6 heads? The Edy's are nice, and no I'm not gonna ask what kind of power might I expect with them b/c there's a lot of stuff that needs to be answered first.... I still like the Demon carb's above the rest, I've ran Carter and Holley, and as I said, the Demon performed the best.... Maybe something like this

part # 132-5563020GC
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/productitem_10001_10002_754092_-1_97584
Like I said, a whole lot on the market now, so many combo's, you never know which may be the best route to take unless you ask.....

Stacked440 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 22, 2007 - 09:58:37 AM »

340 is a revving motor, RPMs reach redline pretty quick. In a car the size of a duster a mildly built up 340 would go like crazy. And to make a sleeper would be awesome! Make it look stock, put some quiet mufflers on it, and put in some electric exhaust cut-outs

crazy larry · « **Reply #21 on:** January 22, 2007 - 11:25:41 PM »

360 crate auto manual valve body

moper · « **Reply #22 on:** January 23, 2007 - 10:14:18 AM »

I would look into Cass Eslick's brakes... here's his email. doctordiff@centurytel.net He is a great reference on what works and what doesnt, and his prices are pretty decent too. I havent used SSB, but I have installed Baer 13" track brakes...They are one incredible upgrade for these cars, when combined with the right tires and suspension. The few sets of MP heads I've seen have had issues that needed fixing. Like cahmber sizes all over the board, valve heights all over the place, casting flaws..You name it. And they always end up costing more. Which is why I use the Edelbrock RPMs on a fairly regular basis. They are cheaper, and easier. If the new MP straight plug aluminums are decent, they may get the nod gor header clearance issues some cars have with Edelbrocks. But in any case, they arent machined by Mopar...And the work is better. I'm no fan of Demon carbs. I will use them, but they are so good at what they do, they are a PITA to keep in tune for me, plus they have had constant quality control issues. At least in every one I've ever took a bowl off of. I like the Holleys or Edelbrocks much better. As far as the best plan...That's the one that fits the budget and gets you the performance you expect. Brand of anything doesnt matter if those two goals can be met.

Hot_Rodder · « **Reply #23 on:** January 24, 2007 - 03:58:40 PM »

The 340 is a great motor... If you can find one

. I wouldn't mind having one, but like I said, trying to find one is the key..... As far as the 360 motor, also a good motor, but in my mind, I'd rather go big block than 360.... But that's my opinion, they are nice, and are capable of some nice numbers, but I'd rather go big block after the 340....
Moper, I look into Cass Eslick's brakes and see what's what, thanks for the info. The guy who bought my old '69 Charger R/T with 440 and automatic, converted the drums to the SSBC, and I have not heard any complaints, so.... But I also don't know what all he did. As far as Mopar heads, I've heard a lot of bad things about the old castings, but have not heard much about these newer castings, actual #'s I don't have here with me, so.... I kind of want to get my hands on this: http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=DTD&Category_Code= which reminds me, anyone have this, used this or know anything about it? I'm wondering how close there numbers have actualy came. But anyway, one of the things that I was looking at the Stage 6's for was the raised ports, TTI makes headers for that, and I can run an RB intake on the B block motor with the raised ports. With the Edy's, there isn't any raised ports that I'm aware of. As far as carb, I still liked the Demon that I had, hated the Holley, and the Carter didn't last long while I had it....

But I would try and limit the carb selection, since I want need a Dominator or anything like it, to either the Demon, or Edy. Besides, if I run the Edy heads, and probably a Performer RPM intake, might as well look into a Edy carb, unless they don't have one that I'll probably need..... Here is one question though, since I'm not setting any #'s, and what I'm looking for is a weekend driver, street, but designing it for stop light to stop light pretty much, and make the asphault cry...

here's a question.
Edelbrock Performer RPM heads -vs- Indy's head? Pro's and cons?
Here's a link: http://www.aeroheadracing.com/id6.html
This ones a quick link, I'm sure everyone know's Indy's web address, but here's the direct hyperlink to there site: http://indyhe.fatcow.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/Catalog.pdf
Then Edelrocks Performer RPM heads: http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/heads/chrysler_bb_rpm.shtml About this site, RPM -vs- Victor?
RPM Intake: http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/manifolds/chrysler_bb_perf-rpm.shtml
Victor Intake: http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/manifolds/chrysler_bb_vic.shtml

By the way, think this might be a bit much

:
655� RB Big Wedge
1165 HP@7400 RPM, 930 Torque@5800 RPM
4.563" Bore , 5.00" Stroke, Race Gas ,Dyno Tested & Tuned, Indy Maxx Alum. Block Raised Cam, Wiseco 16to1 Pistons Tool Steel Pins, Indy Tunnel Ram Full Port & Polish, MSD Distributor and Plug Wires, 4.840 Bore Centers, Indy 600-13 CNC 425 Heads , Indy Wide Pan Oiling System, Jesel Rockers 1.75 X 1.7, Callies Crank (5.000"X2.200"), (2.40X1.90, 65cc), 2 -1195 King Demon TR Carbs, 485 Lbs. Complete, GRP Alum Rods (6.950"X2.200"), Roller Cam/Offset Lifters(Cust), BG Fuel Lines & Regulator, ATI Balancer
Upgrade to Crank Trigger Complete and Mounted
Upgrade to Indy Dry Sump Oiling System Stage 1 #363 (Includes: Pump, Pan, Pan Fittings, Adaptor Plate, and Scavenge Lines from Pan to Pump)
Upgrade to Belt Driven Distributor
NOS Upgrade Available

moper · « **Reply #24 on:** January 25, 2007 - 08:28:50 AM »

I'll limit my response to one or two of your points...lol.
Indy vs Eddy - IHC makes a decent head. The castings are good(not great, but OK), he design is ok, and they can move some air. I'll answer about the -1 and SR models. Those I've used. In the EZ forms, you can still have shaft oiling on some models (instead of the oil lines on the back of the heads) and the exh ports are not so tall that special headers are needed. MW port sizes mandate MW/Indy intake choices. -1 designs need offset rockers to clear ports. Ingeneral, EZ heads have less flow because they were redesigned to fit easier (hence EZ..).
- Edelbrock has the RPM heads, which equate to IHC's SREZ line. The castings are very good, the machining is about the same. The chambers are smaller, but Indy has the heart shape vs Edelbrock's small closed chamber. Any factory type intake will fit. Any rocker system will fit. Most headers will fit, but they have angled plugs that may interfere with some header designs (Indys also have angled plugs). In an A bosy with a B block based engine, headers may not fit with Edelbrock heads. TTi makes some for this.
- edelbrock Victor series are new heads, designed to directly compete with the -1 ICH heads. I have not held a set of these yet. So info to me is just what we read. Any intake will fit. Ports are std size, but it's easy to make them Max Wedge size. At that point, any MW/Indy intake will fit. They require a .550" offset intake raocker. Similar to Indy, but IIRC Indy needs .480. MP says .550 offset..so at this point, I cant say for sure what else works. They do use shaft oiling. Where -1s use external oil lines.

In terms of flow (out of the box..all sets have CNC programs available) the RPMs flow about what a nice set of ported irons flow stock. Port volume is slightly larger than factory iron. Also cheapest initial cost. The SREZs would be next, then SRs. The -1EZs, then IMO anyway the Victors, then the -1s. All those will flow air for 600+hp when they have been properly checked and corrected. All aftermarket heads should have the valve jobs checked and fixed before install.

I would also say, MP has a new head. It is produced (from what we can all tell) by Edelbrock for MP. It's basically an RPM head, but with MP logos and straight spark plugs. They are slightly more money than RPMs, however they will work perfectly with any exisitng headers or manifolds. So spending $3-400 more on heads means using your headers, and not needing to spend the $800 on TTis.

To answer the usage...you want primarilly a street engine. So pump fuel, low end, and a semi decent idle speed. A real nice engine would be a 505"RB (4.25 stroke, 4.35 bore) with the MP/Edelbrocks. That is enough to be useless in two of 3 gears on the street and drop in with any headers, with plenty of room to upgrade to more power later with a simple cam change.

Carlwalski · « **Reply #25 on:** January 25, 2007 - 08:35:50 AM »

Hot_Rodder · « **Reply #26 on:** January 25, 2007 - 07:20:11 PM »

Hmmm... Since there's not a lot of info, as far as on hands usage, available about the Victors, then as far as ease of use or what not, here's a little bit more of how it's shaping up then.....

400 Block
Probably gonna be .030 over.....
440 Source's 470 cid stroker kit
Edelbrock Performer RPM heads
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake

So that's most of the motor.... What's left.... Oh yeah..... The rest

. Anyhow, oil pan, either Milodon or Moroso. Must be a 7 quart, deep sump, but not one of the "about to scrape the ground" styles..... Anyway... Headers, a must, with X pipe crossover, but what muff's? I'm thinking of these: http://www.holley.com/21506HKR.asp maynot be that exact one, but I've been hearing people talking about them here, so I checked them out, the link provided is to one that has a sound bite, so... Lets see here what else.... Carb, get to that later..... Camshaft selection, oh how fun....... Street car, 400/470 Stroker, would it be better to go with a 4 Speed manual, or look into a beefed up A-518 because of the overdrive in it.... I ask this because it might help aid in cam selection. I'm not looking to run a roller cam, so I'm thinking of either a good hydraulic setup, or a fast ramp mechanical flat tappet.... The 700 horse 505 Stroker I spec'd out was using a monster of a cam that was a fast ramp flat tappet mecahnical cam........ Think it had a .630" lift and one mean duration..... Anyway... I'm undecided on either a timing chain, or a gear drive setup.... Water pump and housing will be aluminum. Harmonic Damper I'm figuring maybe a Super Damper by ATI or maybe a Fluidamper....

70B@rracuda · « **Reply #27 on:** January 25, 2007 - 10:12:48 PM »

With a fast ramp flat tappet you will want to ensure your valve springs are the proper ones. I have heard of the agressively ramped cam lobes being sheared off by the lifter when the spring pressure isn't right. That would hurt. You want to buy your springs from the cam manufacturer or use ones of thier recomendation. I let Hughes do the thinking for me, it's easier (and safer).LOL

moper · « **Reply #28 on:** January 26, 2007 - 07:32:17 AM »

I run replacement Hemi pans. They hold plenty, and are not subject to road rash like even the low profile Milodons. The 470 is a great package. revs fast, light weight, and has the best main webbing. A good match for RPM heads. You will want a cam in the 230-240� range for a 470. It's not much bigger than a typical 440. So it's easier to over cam it. The Crane H302-2 hydraulic would be a mild but strong cam. A nice solid might be the XE282S.

Hot_Rodder · « **Reply #29 on:** January 27, 2007 - 02:04:37 PM »

I usualy try to get a cam/lifter package, but if they have a kit that also includes springs and such, then i try to get that. Anyway, I tried to look up the H302-2 under Crane and Comp cams, nothing found, and went under CompCams for the XE282S but that's a chedy cam...

Anyhow, I'll check out a few different line ups. Like I said, it doesn't matter if it's a hydraulic or flat tappet, don't think I'm gonna go roller b/c of the added $. Maybe something like this: http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Search/CamDetails.asp?PartNumber=21-225-4

Author Topic: What to do........ (Read 7364 times)

Hot_Rodder

Re: What to do........

Chryco Psycho

Re: What to do........

Hot_Rodder

Re: What to do........

moper

Re: What to do........

Hot_Rodder

Re: What to do........

Stacked440

Re: What to do........

crazy larry

Re: What to do........

moper

Re: What to do........

Hot_Rodder

Re: What to do........

moper

Re: What to do........

Carlwalski

Re: What to do........

Hot_Rodder

Re: What to do........

70B@rracuda

Re: What to do........

moper

Re: What to do........

Hot_Rodder

Re: What to do........