Author Topic: Engine Rebuild  (Read 949 times)

Offline Srobinson4

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Engine Rebuild
« on: July 28, 2007 - 09:33:43 AM »
My car is currently undergoing restoration.  To this date I have put almost $40,000.00 into this project and the engiine is not done yet.  On yesterday I went to see the car and spoke with the restorer.  He showed me the short block on the stand.  He also told me that he had the old piston rods reconditioned and balanced and was re-using them.  Likewise he told me he was using the old valve rods and and valves and had the old heads reconditioned.  I am looking for around 400hp on this motor but what he is doing dosn't sound right to me.  But since I am not an engine builder I do not know if this is common practice or not.  I know restorers have unique abilities to rebuild things but should not the engine be new parts from the oil pump up?  Please help.




Offline matt63

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Re: Engine Rebuild
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2007 - 10:47:21 AM »
Reconditioning rods and heads is an acceptable practice for automotive engines.  However, it's your engine so you need to educate yourself and tell the shop what you want.  It's your car and your money.  I'm guessing they are just sending the engine out to an engine shop for the work.  Not knowing what engine you have, 400 hp may not be hard to achieve with a stock bottom end and heads. New ARP rod bolts and some simple head bowl porting and a better valve grinding work would be a nice upgrade from stock.  You definitely need to do some research on cam and intake selection as they will have a great affect on performance.  Do you know what compression ratio your engine has?  This is important.  There are some great articles on the internet through the Mopar mags, Comp Cams, Hughes Engines, etc. that dyno various combinations.
Matt in Edmonton

'68 Valiant
'73 Cuda 340 4 speed (408) SOLD

Offline go-fish

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Re: Engine Rebuild
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2007 - 03:56:28 PM »
Wow! $40,000!
I surpassed 40 awhile ago and have done all the work myself. Engine needs to be built and dyno'ed and it needs paint. Do yourself a favor and quit counting after 20 grand, it hurts less.
BTW, throw us a bone and tell us what engine you have.

Offline 73EStroker

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Re: Engine Rebuild
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2007 - 05:17:26 PM »
You will have one awesome looking car for that kind of money. Not to scare you though (about the engine) but I considered resized rods etc but instead chose new Eagle H Beams because rods do have a finite life. Think cycles of power pulses. Only trouble is no one can figure for sure when that life cycle is up - could be 100 million pulses could be 500 million pulses. Anyway I went out and paid the $600 for the Eagles instead. You may want to consider that and forged pistons with a balanced assembly. Chances are @ 400HPish you will never have the engine let you down.

Good Luck
Barry (Salmon Arm)

Offline Srobinson4

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Re: Engine Rebuild
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2007 - 06:51:41 PM »
Thanks for all comments.  I have a numbers matching 340.  Does that matter any?


Offline 73EStroker

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Re: Engine Rebuild
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2007 - 08:34:25 PM »
OK ......... so my comments are still applicable if you go and buy new MP rods and pistons. That way you keep the car exact.
Barry (Salmon Arm)

Offline go-fish

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Re: Engine Rebuild
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2007 - 01:44:15 PM »
In my opinion, it doesn't matter what you put inside the engine. Whether it be MP or Eagle or Diamond forged pistons, re. F.A.S.T. racers (Factory APPEARING Stock). If you have gone as far as 40K I feel you are serious enough about the car to do the engine right. The right way to me is filling it with parts that make it more reliable than holding on to nostalgia.
Nobody's going to burn you at the stake for putting some H-beam rods and forged pistons in your engine. Send the heads off for a PROFESSIONAL (i.e. Shady Dell or Hughes Engines) port job and get an (era correct) LD340 Eddy aluminum high rise intake and a good carb. All that and you should (considering the tune) you will have your 400 and it would look correct.
BTW, I have one of those intakes. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but those intakes are the factory aluminum intakes that came on 340's not aftermarket?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2007 - 02:13:16 PM by go-fish »

Offline jvike

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Re: Engine Rebuild
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2007 - 09:30:19 AM »
The LD340 is an aftermarket intake. 340's came with a chunk of iron.  ;)
« Last Edit: July 30, 2007 - 10:26:08 AM by jvike »
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Offline HP2

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Re: Engine Rebuild
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2007 - 10:19:20 AM »
Before spending the guys money, maybe we should ask what the intended usage is. Is the 400 HP a requirement or is it just wanted for the parking lot grand prix? Is the car going to be used to cruise to the show and shine or is is going to be a bracket racer? Do you have a ball park figure for what you want to spend on the engine? What reference do you have on what 400 horses feel like and whether they are actually needed or just wanted?  When you say 400, is that at the crank, at the wheels in race trim, or installed with the a/c running?

Generally, rebuilt rods and heads are not a big problem and they can be used at 400-500 hp levels without worry. The issue usually comes down to the amount of time and moeny that needs to be spent on them to make them last at high horsepower levels can be better spent on newer, purpose built parts instead.

Offline moper

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Re: Engine Rebuild
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2007 - 10:24:35 AM »
I agree with HP2. Here's my take on things... It sounds like you said "it needs to be rebuilt", and he had it rebuilt. But, there is a huge difference between "rebuilding" and "performance building". They are related, but not the same. And, most shops that "...can rebuild it. No problem.." may have problems making the power levels you want within visual restrictions. So, what's the fix? Well, technology always improves. It improves the materials the parts are made from, it improves the science that went into designing these engines, and it improves the machines that do the work. To get more from a stock design, you have to use the most modern stuff from all 3. And if you're spending that much $$ on a resto, you dont really (IMO anyway) want to hurt the collectability and value of a car by not using factory looks. You can get 400hp from a stock appearing 340. Manifolds, small carb, etc. But, things have to be altered slightly, and that costs money. The first thing is, you can change the internals. The simplest way to get 400hp and huge torque, is to go stroker. But you dont have to, and in the interest of keeping the engine matching and the value high, lets go with a 3.31(stock) stroke 340. You need more compression. They said they were either 10.5:1, or 8.5:1 depending ont he years. In both cases, they lied. (they designers spec'd it, but there was poor production line standards for the machining and assembly) A high compression 340 had at best about 9.8:1, and the later 72-73s had about 7.8:1. You want a true 10:1 static ratio, which involves using modern pistons and blueprinting the block machining so they end up where they are supposed to in relation to the block's deck surface. You will need the mains align honed, the block's decks square decked, and the cylinders bored and properly honed for the modern rings. This should be done on all modern equipment. Not stuff that looks like it's from the 60s and "works fine for this older stuff..." You will want the rods reconditions with modern ARP bolts in them. And you'll want the crank, pistons, and rods internally balanced. You want the heads to be redone, but with performance in mind. That means new valves. They dont have to be stainless (I like using stainless swirl polished, but that's just me), but they will need to be back cut, and they will need seats cut with straight pilots and seat cutters, not stones. They will need unleaded seats installed for the unleaded fuel. They will need new guides. They will need the spring seats cut for double springs, and the guides cut down for positive seals. The blueprinting operations may mean you will need new pushrods. All this stuff combines to make a package that looks stock, but moves more air much better, and will last for a very long time that way. The cam needs  to be spec'd for use with the stock intake and carb, and the manifolds and closed exh system. This is one area where HUGE gains are made with little loss in driveability. I would think the XE274h would be a nice cam, or perhaps something similar from Engle or a custom unit from Scott Brown. In any case, the factory distributor and carb will need carefull attention to set them up to perform with the new parts too. You should have no trouble getting 400hp from a stock look build. If you dont mind visual changes,  400 hp can be done with a stock plain rebuild and some bolt ons like headers, a carb, and ignition. The trick to a stock look build is to never give up any power to losses from lack of accuracy or overlook any area to make small improvements. There is no trick to making power if you dont mind things looking non-stock.

Offline gcone

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Re: Engine Rebuild
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2007 - 03:24:42 PM »
...I agree with all the above-keep the stock apprearance but since you've gone this far, finish it off right!  Going with a stroker is a sure bet...I went with the Purple Cam and spent a few bucks on the heads...the "non-origional" components are 780carb and TTI headers.  It dyno's 378hp to the wheels...best thing: I have only 4200.00 incl.labor in the engine.
71 Tored Plymouth Hemi Cuda Rec.
69 Hemi Orange Dodge Charger RT
70 Calypso Coral Ford BOSS 302 Rec.
71 Bright Red Dodge Demon 340
70 Red Chevrolet Chevelle SS Convertible (L78)
05 Black C6 Vette Convertible
07 Black Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 Convertible
07 Black Dodge Charger SRT8
08 Black Dodge Challenger...on order@12/04/07

Offline loco340cuda

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Re: Engine Rebuild
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2007 - 10:53:13 PM »
gcone, whats your engine specs?
1970 Cuda 340 4-speed - now stroked to 416ci (SOLD)
2017 Mustang Shelby GT350