Author Topic: Starting issues........  (Read 1450 times)

Offline Hot_Rodder

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Starting issues........
« on: August 08, 2007 - 01:05:25 PM »
OK I got just a little bit of a problem.... ::) I finaly got the car to start, '72 SE with non-original 383 with auto tran's. Ran...ok... Sorta. It picked up oil pressure, around 40 psi +/-, and wouldn't idle. Had to hold the pedal down to keep it running (I think the cam isn't the original one to that motor (heck the intake is listed as a 3500-7000 rpm if I remember right).... The carb is shot, but should flow well enough to crank the 383 up. After getting it to fire up two times, each time on a different day, it would "lop" real hard, with the pedal down atleast 1" down, push down and it would really rev up. The motor is worn out, ring aren't all that great at sealing now, therefor it smokes, alot. The previous owner said that when I pulled the car out of his yard, half the exhuast fell out, or got pulled off, doesn't bother me since I want to replace it anyway..... ::) So, when it fires up, it's really loud, and deep, wonder if the neighbors like it :rofl:. Anyway, the problem is, if it idles to low, as in I take my foot off the pedal, ot shuts off, and want start back up, almost like it kills the battery, and that's all she wrote. So, I put the battery charger on it, get it to charge up, and it want start to the next day. After that second day, nothing. It will spin over, but is back to not starting up :bricks1:. I figured maybe it's just the battery (out of my International truck), and the cables (not the best shape), so I went and got a new battery (the guy said it pulled 700 CA on his meter), and new cables (not correct, but heck, they work). And still, the motor spins (IMO) slow, almost like it's spinning to slow to start up. My 440 that I had in my '69 did that, until I put a Power Master XS torque on it, then it spun over so fast it looked like it was running while trying to start up :smokin:. The soleniod is on the fender well next to the battery, yet, the big cable off the battery runs straight to the starter, and the smaller wire is going to the solenoid on the fender well, if I had a picture of this with me, I'd post it, but I don't. There's also about 4 fuseable links, and other wires going to this solenoid. Am I don't something wrong here? Or is the starter trying to hang up? I'm planning on this 15th coming up to replace the starter with one of these:
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_75384_-1
Unless someone has a better (cheaper) idea. With this starter, I'll be ditching the factory heavy weight clunker, and going to a smaller, lighter, stronger starter that should turn this motor over fast enough.... I would like to get the Power Master again, but at that price, I'm more than willing to save a few bucks, go to one that's not quite as strong, but still strong enough to turn this beast over.

Also, I've already got this oil pan with the matching 1/2" pick up tube:
http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/bl7quoilpan.html
So the smaller starter should be somewhat helpful.




Offline ted

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Re: Starting issues........
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2007 - 02:04:40 PM »
IF its that wore out why play with it?
74 cuda, 70 challenger r/t

Offline cudagirl4406pk

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Re: Starting issues........
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2007 - 02:54:48 PM »
check for spark and also check the steering column wiring my cuda had a problem trying to run and stay running and the main harness up to the key was not staying connected.


michele
Yes i am a girl and no you cant drive my MOPAR :)

Offline 73HEMIRALLYEGUY

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Re: Starting issues........
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2007 - 03:59:22 PM »
To eliminate the non-problems 1. Start by measuring the voltage at the + side of the coil. Needsto be at least 8.5-9.5 volts. If not you have either low system voltage or a bad ballast resistor. If OK, check to make sure you have a good spark at the spark plug. If not you will need to check coil, wires, cap and rotor. Spark should jump 3/8 to 1 inch. Next TDC the engine with the distributor cap off and the # 1 plug position indexed with marker on dist. housing. turn ign. switch on with #1 plug wire connected to another spark plug that is grounded. Now loosen distributor hold-down bolt and rotate ditributor slowly until the plug fires. this means your crank, cam and distributor are all in sync at TDC. If it still won't start use a can of carb as your fuel supply to spray down carb while cranking over the engine. This should give you a fairly close starting place as to where the problem is. Good luck

Offline ntstlgl1970

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Re: Starting issues........
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2007 - 04:12:35 PM »
Trying to start on old gas or new gas?
70 Cuda, 7.0L Gen-III Hemi, Viper T56 w/9310 gearset, 3.91's, Megasquirt MS3x v3.57, Innovate wideband, Firm Feel upper arms, torsion bars, springs and strut rods, QA1 DA shocks. I did everything on this car except the fancy paint stuff and I drive it...and I can't seem to stop messing with it....

Offline Hot_Rodder

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Re: Starting issues........
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2007 - 04:16:46 PM »
The motor is worn out, but I'd like to get it running well enough to where I can get it running on its own without having to keep my foot on it. Now, why this? Because when I go to rebuild it, I don't want any unknown surprises. Pretty much use that ol' saying "it was running when I pulled it" kind of thing.... As far as wiring, I ordered a new engine/ transmission/ AC wiring harnesses. I'm not sure of what shape the underdash harness is, but I looked at the connector (that was unplugged) from the A/C Heater control panel, and it looked like things might have gotten a little warm. However, both the front and rear blower motors still work.... At first, I couldn't get it to run at all, and was figuring maybe compression? Also, the saprk didn't seem to working out all that great either, so.... Put a different "used" coil on it, new rotor, and walla, spark.... Now, fuel.... Put some fresh gas in the tank, put some fuel line fittings on the pump, and ran a new fuel hose to the carb line, added a new fuel filter to it. The fuel line that I had on it, was too long, and was about to hit the distributor, so I had an unused fuel line, with brass fitting inside it along with pressure gauge, so I put it on, b/c it wasn't as long as the other, and got the fuel hose to hook up to it, still close, but heck, it fits.... Got fuel to the carb, and found a bunch of leaks... Got those sealed, and with the help of a friend, and some tinkering around with it for a little while, we got it to fire up. Of course, it shut off, let it idle to low, and tried to crank it again, but the abttery was low, so we let the battery charge up, and went in and ate some BBQ... :drool:. After he, and his family, left, I tried it again, couldn't get it to crank, so I left it alone to charge over night. The next morning, I tried it a coule of times, when no one was around (everyone was either at work, or somewhere else) and it fired up... Figures... No one to show off in front of... I let it idle down, and of course, it shut off. It has not since cranked (fired off). I'm wondering if the starter isn't spinning the motor fast enough for it to fire up? As I said, same problem with my old 440 (rebuilt with a big(ger) cam) changed to a better starter, and it finaly fired up. Maybe I need to do the same? I went out and got a new voltmeter, since my Mac Tools one went missing (imagine that, $150 est voltmeter going missing), need to try it out, but as far as I know, the wiring as far as ign/running circuits are fine, but maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully the harnesses will be here within 2 weeks. Tomorrow I should have the correct style ballast resistor coming in, along with some other stuff. Does the above mentioned setup of battery cables seem right? When these cars were made, I wasn't even thought of, much less around, LOL. ::). So, needless to say, I don't know how these are supposed to be hooked up, I just reaplced them, and ran them the way they were when I took them off. The negative cable is hooked to the back of the power steering bolt with a nut holding it on, and the extra wire hooked to the radiator support with a screw. The positive is mentioned above. I ask b/c if it's not right, maybe the starter isn't getting enough power to it to turn the motor like it should, but I don't see why? Once again, this is a '72 with non-original 383. :clueless: :walkaway:

'73 Hemi Ralley Guy, I'll have to check that all, once I get back to the house. The previous owner said that it may have jumped time, but the distributor seems to be fairly tight, as far as turning the motor, and it turning with it, but who's to say the motor didn't jump back once, and make the timing jump a tooth, so I'll be trying to get the motor over to TDC and check it. If it has jumped well then: :pullinghair: why have I not checked this already....... But for now it's back to :working:.

ntstlgl 1970: The gas in the tank is a little old, but should start on it, because it's not that old. I got some gas out of the tank, and tried in a older push mower, and it ran off it, so... But to be a little more on the safe side, I added a gas treatment, to remove water (or whatever it does), along with some additive, and put about 6 gallons of premium in it, the new clear fuel filter, at first, had some older looking gas coming through it, but ran off of it, and now has freash looking gas coming through it... ::)

Offline pink panther

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Re: Starting issues........
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2007 - 06:31:27 PM »
73 hemi ralley, do you want your aviator resized?

Scott   -  Member since 9/18/2005

Offline Bullitt-

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Re: Starting issues........
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2007 - 08:11:46 PM »
Hot_Rodder  No doubt the battery needs to be fully charged to get one of these old motors to fire off, so keep a charger on it.
   Otherwise I never read anything about the carburetor, these things sitting around dry up & cause all kinds of problems especially hard to start & run at low RPM, If you have a known good carb. that you can swap on, or rebuild the one you have might just do the trick.
    You did mention putting fuel in the tank, again if the car has sat for very long & there was any old gas, or rust scale this will cause problems running. Try running a line from your pump input to a temporary fuel source. 
     Good luck  :thumbsup:
               
Wade  73 Rallye 340..'77 Millennium Falcon...13 R/T Classic   Huntsville, AL
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Offline Hot_Rodder

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Re: Starting issues........
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2007 - 10:35:27 AM »
The new battery I put in has never spun the motor over fast, at least, not like I think it should. Being a new battery, and tested before I got it, should be fully charged, I checked the voltage at the battery, and there's 12 volts... But yet, the motor turns slowly when trying to crank.... I've already got another starter on the way: http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10001_10002_75384_-1 Hopefully this one will do the job, it should, I don't quite see why it wouldn't, and being that I'm gonna be running a bigger oil pan, and headers, being a little bit smaller, and aluminum, should be a better setup anyway compared to factory original.... So why not :dunno: