Author Topic: Why not E-85 ethanol?  (Read 2513 times)

daves70

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Why not E-85 ethanol?
« on: November 14, 2007 - 08:41:47 PM »
Why can't I build my 482 Hemi to run on E-85 ethanol? It's basically alcohol and has 105 octane. I have aluminum heads and with alcohol you can run a higher compression because it runs cooler. I know I would have to re-jet the carbs up, but big deal. The mileage might not be quite as good, but who cares about that with a beast like this? Higher octane and runs cooler. I watched the Indy cars this year in Iowa run it and they had no problem. Orange County Choppers built a Harley to run on it. Just food for thought.  :grinyes: :burnout:




Offline dodge freak 2

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Re: Why not E-85 ethanol?
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2007 - 09:18:57 PM »
You can, in fact theres E-85 carbs coming out, think they are just alcohol carbs jetted down.

Good idea to bump up the compression, believe 12-1 maybe higher.

Not sure if the EPA thinks its a good idea. Maybe right now nobody cares but if enough hot rods start fueling up, I wounder if they try to stop it. It is just for these new cars too use.

Just thinking of what could go wrong, after you set your car up to run it. I would get a racing spark box for it too, like MSD 7 or 8 boxes.

nivvy

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Re: Why not E-85 ethanol?
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2007 - 09:24:12 PM »
where would you fill up at with that stuff??? procharger makes a E-85 procharger...... :money:

Offline common 27

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Re: Why not E-85 ethanol?
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2007 - 09:32:26 PM »
Out here in Iowa it is available at a lot of gas stations
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Offline dodge freak 2

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Re: Why not E-85 ethanol?
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2007 - 10:57:12 PM »
If you are really going to try it, a site call -speed talk-has some racers on  it and lots of good info.

Today E-85 was asked about again..heres a link to it..http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8275&sid=3114b0107a76f18911ed5094c9e74ccf

Offline quagmire

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Re: Why not E-85 ethanol?
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2007 - 01:05:01 AM »
There are some issues to running ethanol.  Ethanol only contains roughly 2/3 the chemical energy of gasoline, which is why you have to jet your carb much richer.  It also has cold start issues, which may or may not be a factor for you.  Ethanol is also electrically conductive, which causes issues when trying to use a fuel level sender.  Flex fuel vehicles have a special sender module which converts the normal 12v DC into AC.  It is also very corrosive, so special seals and stainless steel lines are a must.  I believe this is part of the reason OEM's use the sending unit module on flex fuel vehicles.  Something about the electrical conductivity and corrosion properties.  On a plus side, you can significantly offset the power loss by advancing timing and increasing the compression ratio together because of the 105 octane level. 

Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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Re: Why not E-85 ethanol?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2007 - 05:17:18 AM »
To use E-85, all rubber and plastic would have to be removed from the fuel system because it would take a beating.

  Mike

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nivvy

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Re: Why not E-85 ethanol?
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2007 - 05:42:23 AM »
every point in compression is another 25HP  :burnout: I guess braided an lines are ok....

Offline Pistol Gripper

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Re: Why not E-85 ethanol?
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2007 - 07:33:42 AM »
As I see it, there are a few problems with E85.

1.  More expensive than gasoline.

2.  You'll run the risk of not finding a station that sells it before you run out.

3.  Greater pollution ( greater risks for cancer & depletion of the ozone layer )

4.  Higher prices for food, as more corn is diverted to ethanol production, less will be available for feed and less of other crops will be planted.

I guess if you will be making your own, it'd be a great deal, otherwise it'll be a pain in the azz.

I have a friend who built a straight alky motor for his camaro,  sucked gallons of the stuff per mile, but man was it quick.  He made his own.

My couple pennies,

P.G.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2007 - 07:36:35 AM by Pistol Gripper »
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nivvy

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Re: Why not E-85 ethanol?
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2007 - 05:40:12 AM »
more exspenive... you think it would be cheaper... :working:

Offline Pistol Gripper

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Re: Why not E-85 ethanol?
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2007 - 07:34:58 AM »
 StrOkEr ,

It costs less per gallon, but you have to burn a lot more of it.  E85 has only 72% of the energy that gasoline does.  This is a good article on gas vs. E85:
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/alternativefuels/articles/120863/article.html

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Offline HP2

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Re: Why not E-85 ethanol?
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2007 - 09:16:57 PM »

My Flex fuel suburban gets 7-9 mpg with E85 whereas it will get 12-13 mpg with gasoline. That that rate, E85 must cost .60 less per gallon for it to match the cost of using gasoline. However, once the spread in price gets greater, E85 becomes more economical.

For overall production costs, I'm not sure where it falls. Since corn is not the most efficient vegetable to make E85 out of, production costs will likely drop in coming years as the distribution network comes on line and more plants are built to create it and the move to sugar beets, garbage, and other means allows more productive distillation in more places.

The bit about E85 driving up other produce prices is baloney though. Like I said above, corn is not the most efficient means of producing E85 and once we get past that, there are plenty of things that can grow in less hospitable places to make E85 out of. This allows all the prime mid western land to continue producing whatever food stuffs they currently do .Not only that, but cattle and other food animals are not being denied food because of E85 production. they actually benefit form it as the left over mash of the distillation process is very nutrient rich meal for most livestock that would otherwise be thrown away.

To view a predominately E85 based transportation base, once has to only look at Brazil of some its neighbors who's E85/gas production is the exact opposite of our own. Something like 95% of their transportation base runs off ethanol and methanol based fuels.

Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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Re: Why not E-85 ethanol?
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2007 - 09:36:26 PM »
My Flex fuel suburban gets 7-9 mpg with E85 whereas it will get 12-13 mpg with gasoline. That that rate, E85 must cost .60 less per gallon for it to match the cost of using gasoline. However, once the spread in price gets greater, E85 becomes more economical.

For overall production costs, I'm not sure where it falls. Since corn is not the most efficient vegetable to make E85 out of, production costs will likely drop in coming years as the distribution network comes on line and more plants are built to create it and the move to sugar beets, garbage, and other means allows more productive distillation in more places.

The bit about E85 driving up other produce prices is baloney though. Like I said above, corn is not the most efficient means of producing E85 and once we get past that, there are plenty of things that can grow in less hospitable places to make E85 out of. This allows all the prime mid western land to continue producing whatever food stuffs they currently do .Not only that, but cattle and other food animals are not being denied food because of E85 production. they actually benefit form it as the left over mash of the distillation process is very nutrient rich meal for most livestock that would otherwise be thrown away.

To view a predominately E85 based transportation base, once has to only look at Brazil of some its neighbors who's E85/gas production is the exact opposite of our own. Something like 95% of their transportation base runs off ethanol and methanol based fuels.


So other than corn, E85 can be made out of what? Soybeans(hopefully). We need a cheap and plentyful supply.  :grinyes:




   Mike

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2016 SXT+.  1 of 524 SXT+'s in Plumb-crazy for 2016.