Author Topic: Head Differences Help  (Read 1271 times)

Offline buddydog

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 155
Head Differences Help
« on: November 03, 2008 - 06:25:01 PM »
Hey everyone,

I am not terribly knowledgeable about motors and heads but have been putting together a 350 Olds for my 1953 Chevy the past few months. I need a bit of help for the 440 I just bought though. (There are a whole bunch of other goodies I am planning to replace but this is specifically in regards to the heads)

I was reading an article about "a proven 500HP combo" and it suggested using the #346 Heads among other items. My question is, the block I have has a set of 906's (official casting number is 2843906) and both the cc's (79.5) and the intake/exhaust numbers (2.08"/1.74") are exactly the same size as the 346's so what is the difference? If I simply got these guys cleaned up, ported, new 2.14/1.81 valves and a 3 angle valve job would I be good to go?


Also, as an aside, anyon ehave any idea what the stock camshaft is in these blocks?

Thanks in advance!

Geoff
« Last Edit: November 03, 2008 - 06:32:28 PM by buddydog »




Offline 422STROKER

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 5386
  • Member Since 6/3/06
Re: Head Differences Help
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2008 - 06:40:45 PM »
Heads should work just fine for you.  The stock cam will depend on year and application.

Tom
Tom
12.77 @ 108.87 15" Street Drag radial tires 3.23 gear

Offline buddydog

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 155
Re: Head Differences Help
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2008 - 06:47:04 PM »
I am told this was pulled form a 69 Charger if that helps.

Geoff

Offline 422STROKER

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 5386
  • Member Since 6/3/06
Re: Head Differences Help
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2008 - 06:56:25 PM »
Stock 440 from 69 had a .425Intake lift and .435 Exhaust lift and the HP had .450I and .458E according to my Chiltons.

Tom :2thumbs:
Tom
12.77 @ 108.87 15" Street Drag radial tires 3.23 gear

Offline moper

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2368
Re: Head Differences Help
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2008 - 07:00:40 PM »
346s have a slightly revised exhaust port and the intake port IMO has a slightly better approach on the short turn than the 906. Otherwise, same heads, just had the frist induction (flame) hardened exh seats.

Offline buddydog

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 155
Re: Head Differences Help
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2008 - 12:22:40 AM »
 :clueless: Okay, I might as well spell out my overall plan so I can get a better idea if I am on the correct path here.

This is what I am attempting to copy with this build....

9.9cr, forged pistons
ported 346's with 2.14/1.81 (in my case 906's)
stamped HD rockers with adj. pushrods
torker II
850 holley(900 cfm)
big headers (looking into hedman)
old DC292 cam(new MP one is better) (I found the Mopar Performance "Purple" .292 cam kit w/ liftershttp://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=DCC-4120237)
deep pan w/ hemi pick up
decked, squared, balanced, rod bolts, etc.
electronic dist, 17 initial, 36 total (looking into the Summit Electronic Replacement kithttp://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM-850005)

The claim is that provided you get everything in order you should be pulling around 450-510 hp in the 4000-5700 rpm range. Does this look plausible? If so, I guess I just want confirmation before I start ordering parts. Also, does anyone have a recommended carb model that fits this bill? In searching, when the Holley's get into 900 cfm they switch over to TBI. I am but a simple man that doesn't want to get into things I can't set up alone in my garage while the baby is sleeping and the wife thinks I'm cleaning something or taking out trash for an hour or so....

Thanks again folks,

Geoff

Offline The Cuda Guy

  • Support Our Troops
  • Resident
  • ****
  • Posts: 3899
  • Pearl Harbor, HI
    • C-C.com
Re: Head Differences Help
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2008 - 12:08:36 PM »
Have you concidered getting your stock steel crank machined down to chevy journal size (3.90?)?  That would give you close to 20+ CI of stroke and help your HP goals? 

Dont worry Neil (Chryco) will chime in here soon and give you some solid advice.

Don     
The Cuda Guy Project is on going!

Member Since January 14, 2002

Offline moper

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2368
Re: Head Differences Help
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2008 - 12:43:18 PM »
If it were up to me, I would lose the MP cam, the Torker II, and the large tube headers. Not sure what you're running for pistons, but I like Diamond forged flat top, or if you are not a NOS user, KB hyper flat tops. The real compression when the block is suare decked and the pistons are in at zero will be around 9.6:1 depending on the size of the chambers... They are NEVER what they are supposed to be (88ish ccs is published, most are over 90) I'd run the Crane H302-2 or the Comp XE274H, and an RPM dual plane intake. Time to get your build into the 2000s...lol. Those packages will peak in the 5800 range for hp and torque will be in from 3000-4500. 

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36620
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re: Head Differences Help
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2008 - 02:07:00 PM »
I basically Agree with Moper , the 292 cam is a waste of time , the 906 heads are great , better than the 346 casting , use a flat top forged piston , I would use a Fast ramp Engle or Lunati VooDoo cam if you want a hyd cam or there are better grinds available if you want a solid cam , Holley has an HP series 950 carb or for less $ Proform makes a wicked 950 as well . the other option to look at is the 440 Source stroker kit gives you crank rods , pistons , brgs & rings all balanced for less than the typical cost of rebuilding the stock parts , the other thing to look at is 516 or 915 casting heads , the closed chamber will bump the compression to 10.5 range but will give the engine quench & will resist detontaion better if you have access to a set

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline PistolGrip440-6

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
Re: Head Differences Help
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2008 - 03:54:47 PM »
346s are easier for the do it yourselfer type to not screw up porting and actually gain some flow, they also do a little bit better at high lift but the difference is very very negligable. Basically 915/906/346/452s are all the same flow wise, 915s have closed chambers and 915/906 ports are the same and 346 and 452 ports are basically the same. Theyre all very close in flow and are what you want if youre going to run factory wedge heads from a passenger car.

Id loose the 509 too, not because I dont like the Mopar cams, but because I think its pointless to have that much duration with hydraulic lifters in a 440. If you want to run a DC cam try the .557 mechanical, its a little more agressive by spec but once you factor in the lash its not much different, Ive heard good things about it from a few people who have run it.

I also hear good things about the Comp 292 magnum for a similar cam. But the build youve laid out, 440, 10:1, DC509, torker, and a carb to support it with 1 7/8 headers has long been the default 500 hp 440 build.