color of 383/4 in a standard Barracuda or Challenger

[70 383 SE]

Yes I sure wish I had the build sheet  , but the fellow that restored it said he could not find one and he striped it right down.

[cjm]

Good points to raise as far as the NHRA specs.

The only factory re-issue cam for the big blocks from Mopar has always been the 450/458...AFAIK.

I was on BW's Hamtramk site and found the factory ad for '70 Challenger 383's that I mentioned may have been created. They were. Could not find one for Cuda but may be posted there soon I hear? Again, it is just a small piece of the puzzle - created very early in the model year and may contain factual errors. Check it out none the less. It also describes the un-silenced air cleaner installed on 383 R/T and the dual snorkel on 383 Challenger difference I was also trying to shed any light on. 

And when comparing the two Cuda build sheets above - I think the 'Cuda that got the 330hp 383 did not get a rallye hood & hood pins? Can somebody double check that?  Nick

I just wanted to follow up on this one a little bit. If you look at the post by Alaska_TA (main forum today), it includes the "1970 Plymouth Dealership Data Book -- Barracuda". This states that the 383(335hp) came standard in a 70 Cuda and was not offered in a 70GrandCoupe or 70Barracuda. The 383(330hp)(blue) was not offered in the Cuda and was an option in the other 2cars... It also states that the cam for the (383-335) is high-lift, high performance..(383-330) is "special".. They do not specify the exact dimensions, but it leads one to "believe" that the cams are different....

[EBodysEast]

Glad you did cjm, gave me a first look at it. What has been discovered through broadcast sheet deciphering is the dealership data is wrong & that a few Barracudas/GC's/Chally V-8/Chally SE's did recieve the 335hp orange engine while a few 'Cudas and R/T's did recieve the 330hp blue.

The BCS for the '70 Cuda I posted is ONE example of the latter that did recieve an 085 engine. Can never know exactly how many of each. With 6 engine codes (084-089) the assembly line matrix dictated which of the engines a car would recieve.

An example might be that a say a 'Cuda would have been more likely to recieve a Holley than a Carter...in most instances. Since I have not cracked the code (nobody has yet) I cannot say what instances dictated which engine. The closest I have come is the one 'Cuda example that did not recieve the 'rallye' hood. There isn't a J54 Sport Hood / J45 Hood pins option marked off on this BS23NOB BCS.

Upon closer inspection, one can't tell what kind of Barracuda this car is/was. The Ebay seller presents it as a BCS for a 'Cuda, but there is a hole in the section that records the model. You can't tell if it is a BH, a BP, or a BS23 because that area is missing.   

Edit:
These (2) below that were posted earlier on in the thread help prove my statement above that the dealership data for engine availability is wrong/misp-print.

BP E63 D21 eng-087 carb-36 / JH E63 D21 eng-087 carb-36 (4 speeds)

Taken from that can conclude Dodge and Plymouth were inclined to give the 335hp engines to any/all E bodys with 4 speed and 4 speed with A/C.

Best of luck on your 'Cuda resto cjm.

[bb71challenger]

Wow, dont think I have ever heard of a bonifide 'Cuda that came from the factory with a flat hood.

[cjm]

Glad you did cjm, gave me a first look at it. What has been discovered through broadcast sheet deciphering is the dealership data is wrong & that a few Barracudas/GC's/Chally V-8/Chally SE's did recieve the 335hp orange engine while a few 'Cudas and R/T's did recieve the 330hp blue.

The BCS for the '70 Cuda I posted is ONE example of the latter that did recieve an 085 engine. Can never know exactly how many of each. With 6 engine codes (084-089) the assembly line matrix dictated which of the engines a car would recieve.

An example might be that a say a 'Cuda would have been more likely to recieve a Holley than a Carter...in most instances. Since I have not cracked the code (nobody has yet) I cannot say what instances dictated which engine. The closest I have come is the one 'Cuda example that did not recieve the 'rallye' hood. There isn't a J54 Sport Hood / J45 Hood pins option marked off on this BS23NOB BCS.

Upon closer inspection, one can't tell what kind of Barracuda this car is/was. The Ebay seller presents it as a BCS for a 'Cuda, but there is a hole in the section that records the model. You can't tell if it is a BH, a BP, or a BS23 because that area is missing.   

Edit:
These (2) below that were posted earlier on in the thread help prove my statement above that the dealership data for engine availability is wrong/misp-print.

BP E63 D21 eng-087 carb-36 / JH E63 D21 eng-087 carb-36 (4 speeds)

Taken from that can conclude Dodge and Plymouth were inclined to give the 335hp engines to any/all E bodys with 4 speed and 4 speed with A/C.

Best of luck on your 'Cuda resto cjm.

I had originally thought that there was a "changeover" in the specs of the 4bl 383 in 1970 from the holley to the carter but from reading all of this it looks like the "people" who were deciding "what" was going to be available in each car were not communicating to the actual builders on the line...... or they ran out of certain engines at certain times of the year and just put in whatever 383 that was available at that point in time.....    Any news on the "cam" ?? Your earlier posts in this issue states that they were the same one. I had also thought that the cam was the same for the 335 & 330hp...   but that dealership manual "implies" that the cams are different.....

[cjm]

Here go the pages from the manual:

[EBodysEast]

Some or all of my statements are only valid if my intepretations of the 70-71 parts catalog and the '70 Plymouth manual are all correct. Some do agree that they are and others can disagree. No one has claimed to know for sure because interpretation is purely subjective. Either the info is correct or it isn't. My belief that the info is correct is just that, a belief and nothing I presented yet has been good enough to decide either way. None of the big dogs have bitten on it. And why should they. Why should any of us. One suggestion from a Moparts member is to have 10 or more 1970 383 330hp/blue engine cam's measured, including mine - and the findings reported. I would also suggest on top of this is verifying which valve springs were installed too. Until that happens, below are the Challenger ads, and Mopar Performance spring chart & keep enjoying your ride and all the mysteries that still shroud the Mopar muscle cars.

I am very surprised at how many N code '70 E body owners there are both here and there. Finding out which cam came in these engines doesn't seem important enough at this time to get 10 or more of us together for a comparison. Was also reminded that basically '383 cars still get little/no respect and who cares what was original. Sad but oh so true...

[Supercuda]

I finally have my books unpacked, and was able to look at the advertised specs for the 383, as published in a couple of sources. The one I am looking at, has the same specs quoted for all bigblock HP engines. My own 383 cam measured out at this gross duration and overlap, and I have seen 440 cams measure at the oft-quoted 268/284 spec. The spec in my book is this: 276 degrees intake, 292 degrees exhaust duration; and 54 degrees of overlap. All I can really say with any certainty, is that this is correct for my early-build, 383 HP engine, with Holley carburetor. As many running changes occurred during any model year production run, it is possible that the 383 received the tamer profile in later builds during 1970. A Holley carb of equal airflow capacity is never going to give up another 5 BHP over a Carter AVS carburetor. The compression ratio was the same between the 330 and 335 hp engines, so the deciding factor must be the camshaft profile.

[bb71challenger]

As many running changes occurred during any model year production run, it is possible that the 383 received the tamer profile in later builds during 1970.

Sometimes things that mess up peoples heads also are things like early build cars with the previous years engines and sometimes even a car with the next years engines. Case in point is I have heard several stories of 71 'Cuda/Challenger cars getting blue low compression 340's and then again some 72 cars getting the earlier high compression orange 340.