Advise on purchasing a running BB

[femtnmax]

Wall to wall engine looks nice, but it's not on my must have list anymore.  It's like the Piper Cub pilot radios the tower, wants to know his airspeed.   Then the twin engine Cessna calls in, whats his airspeed knowing he's faster than the Cub.  Then an F18 pilot calls in... he thinks he's top dog going 500 knots.   Finally the SR-71 backseater calls in - whats his airspeed.... a long pause, the tower says 1450 knots.  No one called in after that.

[moper]

I expect mid 11's @ 120+. That's a real conservative guess with 530hp and 3600lbs. It needs a bit more cam timing and some chassis work and slicks to reach it's real potential. The quickest street driven E body I know of around here does mid 12's with a 440. There's a guy with a 499 stroker BB Cuda with a 5 speed but he can't drive and he won't run me anyway. 

One town over is a friend of mine. He's got a '73 Barracuda, 496, iron heads, pump gas, all steel body w/6pt cage, p/s, full exh, 727, 4.10s. If it's under 4100lbs with driver I'd be surprised. On street tires the car runs 11.30s all day, any day. And that motor's been in there since 2001. Another good friend has a Coronet, all steel body, hydraulic cam pump gas 440, 727, 4.10s. That car has run 11.60s althought she's getting tired. The engine was done in 1990. There's quite a few BB Bs and Es that can run mid 11s on the street up here. Quite a few in Jersey too. I think there were 3 at the last mopar rental I hit in Atco 2 years ago. One a 6bbl ragtop.

[71chally416]

As for "around here" I don't know of any Mopes that drive around other than the ones I stated, but spring is coming and we'll see what shakes out. It's barely broke in so I'm ready. 

[mrcuda]

After owning several small block e-bodies, I like the way they handle. I think most people when you are driving could care less about the engine size, but when you get to the car shows and open your hood a Big Block just looks like a monster. To me the question is if you were to just go out and get an engine, what would a 440 cost you just for a core?  

[71chally416]

I've seen them for $300 up. There is no shortage. Probably best to buy an old Chrysler that still runs, and get a spare rear chunk and tranny too.

[moper]

I've been buying, rebuilding, or re-selling engines since 1986. The market now is very different with those who are in it only for cash, and who have no clue how they work. You use dto be able to get one running for a few hundred. It's now almost three times that for a good complete running core. So I simply assume all of them are non-running unless I can hear it, and price accordingly. I'd expect to spend $5-600 ona  good running cast crank 440 now. But, with bolt ons, that engine can push an E body easy into the high 12s and be very streetable. I've had 3 small block cars. the fastest one was mid 13s with all engine, and still passed emissions. It was low 12s with the NOS. They do handle well. If I was to have one now, it would be like 71's with a 4" crank.

[71chally416]

Just curious Moper, what parts did you have on your fastest small block? It's really easy to get a 340/360 over 400 crank hp and that will easily propel a 3800lb car into the 12's. 
http://www.compcams.com/Community/Articles/Details.asp?ID=-738676943

[moper]

My own personal one was in the mid 80s. I was 17, and frankly, pretty ignorant...lol. I used a stock '68 340 that came to me in peices... I did a ring and bearing job on it (had the crank polished... that was the only machining I had done  ). I threw it all together with a stock '71 Thermoquad intake and mass rebuilder rebuilt carb. Emphasis on "threw"...lol. I used a Comp 268H cam, matching springs, and hedman 1 5/8 headers (the cheap ones). Ignition was recurved stock one (courtesy of the now discontinued Crane kit...) and the Jacobs Energy Team. It passed emmissions for 3 years, and with a 4sp and 3.32s went deep in the 13s on 275/60/15 Dunlop GT Qualifiers without the NOS sytem. I'd estimate the entire build up (car was a 318 3sp on floor) came to about $2900 in '88 dollars. It was one of the cars I really learned a lot from. Made a bunch of mistakes, had a blast, but learned a lot. Especially in regard to suspension setups and traction. I doubt it made more than 375 realistic hp. But it made every bit of that and didnt waste any. The car never lost a race to a big block on the street, but I did have to spray on a couple...lol.

As a comparison.. the '70 car i built in '90 was a similar no budget deal. I parted out a '78 New Yorker I got for $550. Got the motor and trans. With no work other than Hemi MP springs, a hydraulic cam, an iron 6bbl setup, and headers. The car went 12.80s. Granted the 6bbls back then were $600 for used intake, air cleaner, and new carbs...lol, but the total investment was less than $2500 in '90 dollars.

It simply takes less cash when done smart, to get a big block faster. I respect the small block guys, but  unless you leave the budget part open, you cant get a small block to run as fast as an identically spent-on big block. Yes, you need some parts, but the only thing that needs attention on a big block that doesnt on a small block, is a driveshaft. All other stuff... radiator, headers, exh, transmission, etc, will need equal attention or not need attention at all. The big block will make more power due to more cubes when built identically every time. I will say the small block car (front sway bar, disc brakes) handled and stopped much better than the '70 (small drums brakes, front sway bar). But this made no difference in 98% of my driving situations.

[71chally416]

The only other SB I ever built for my own street use was the 318 outlined in the proven combo section. It did high 12's @109 for about $1,200. Most of that was for boring the block, sizing the rods, new rod bolts, the factory cam kit, electronic ignition conversion, new valves and springs and a $100 pair of cheapo headers. It had an old LD340 and a thermoquad I rebuilt. It would run fine on the cheapest gas I could find and it had a stock torque convertor. It would have definately went low 12's with a good vert and 10-1 compression. It was lucky if it had 8 to 1 after it built up some carbon on the pistons It was definately easier to live with day to day than any of the big blocks I've had as daily drivers. I never lost a race because of smoking the tires and I could cruise down 295 at 3,000rpm without rattling my teeth out. 

[moper]

lol... ah. In an A body with 4.30s. That makes more sense... Not really what I would call apples to apples tho. A friends low compression 383 in his demon will go 12.50s with 3.91s all day long. Nevermind the really fast big block A bodies... Why would any engine rattle your teeth? Even factory balance on all mine was smooth.

[71chally416]

It went about .1 quicker with the 4.30 gears compared to the 3:55's I first had in it. It might have been even less of an actual ET gain because that was done while it still had the 727 tranny. The 2.74 low geared 904 was the thing that really helped out the ET, but I never tried the 3.55's again. The rear gears weren't all that unliveable behind that motor. It had 340 rods and crank with cast 318 pistons and was never even balanced. Smooth as silk up to 7,000.