Too much intake/exhaust overlap for the application

Author Topic: Too much intake/exhaust overlap for the application  (Read 3571 times)

Offline femtnmax

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Too much intake/exhaust overlap for the application
« on: May 07, 2009 - 11:02:56 PM »
Just thought I'd post this info, even though its a Ford FE 416 (390 with 428 crank) work truck.
F250 4x4, 4 speed, 4.56 axle gears, headers with 1.75 primaries and 24 inch by 3 inch diameter collectors then resonators and 2.5 diameter pipes thru Dynomax super turbo mufflers.  Fuel mixture set using O2 sensor from idle-transfer ports-mid range-and secondaries.
Put a Comp XE256 cam.  Specs are 256/268 with 212/218 at 0.05, 110/106 lobe sep. and 42 degrees overlap seat to seat and 5 degrees no overlap at 0.05 lift.  Engine had somewhat lumpy idle at low speed, pulled real strong at mid-upper rpms.  What bothered me was the exhaust ports and headers were thickly coated with black unburned fuel deposits.  I mean coated.  I figured there was too much intake exhaust overlap, even though the cam was for 1000 rpm so they said.
Swapped the comp cam for a Lunati Voodoo with specs 250/256, 207/213 at 0.05, 112/108 lobe sep, and 29 degrees overlap seat to seat with 14 degrees no overlap at 0.05 lift.  So this cam has less overlap, and was rated at 800 rpm.
Exhaust ports are now white/tan, some a little black showing up.  Engine has similar bottom end, does not have the top end it used to but that is fine by me. 
Can't really tell if the gas mileage iimproved.  The truck weighs almost 5400 lb empty, usually gets about 9 or 10 mpg fully loaded or empty.
Phil




Offline moper

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Re: Too much intake/exhaust overlap for the application
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2009 - 12:14:22 PM »
What is the compression and timing on it? It sounds like the Lunati definately did what you needed it to. But it's odd to me the Comp cam was so bad.  I would have thought it would be a good combo with teh 256 too. 42° of overlap isnt much at all.

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Too much intake/exhaust overlap for the application
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2009 - 05:20:54 AM »
 :iagree:
the Comp sepcs don`t sound bad but something was not right with that cam , I have found this before though that a simple cam change away from Comp makes a big improvement even with a supposedly similar cam

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Offline dodge freak 2

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Re: Too much intake/exhaust overlap for the application
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2009 - 05:39:56 PM »
I change my Comp cam (HE268) to a custom cam from Mike Jones..about the same specs...my new cam is 224@.050 on 111 lobe centers compare to 218@.050 on 110 LC.

New cam idles better and pulls to 6400-6600 compare to about 6000..funny I have less vacuum at idle thou but a smoother idle.

Offline femtnmax

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Re: Too much intake/exhaust overlap for the application
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2009 - 11:19:29 PM »
What is the compression and timing on it? It sounds like the Lunati definately did what you needed it to. But it's odd to me the Comp cam was so bad.  I would have thought it would be a good combo with teh 256 too. 42° of overlap isnt much at all.
I thought it would have been a good combo too,  IE not too much for the vehicle or the way it is used.
Compression is 9.6:1, OEM iron heads with decent quench pads, flat top pistons with center recess.  Quench clearance is 0.036 inch.  Timing set at 36 degrees total.  Run it on 85 octane cheapest pump gas with no detonation.
P.S. I initially bought a set of Comp valve springs, but only 2 or 3 met the Comp specs that came with the springs, ALL the others were LOW.   So I returned the springs, bought a set of Crane springs;  every spring met Crane's specs and met Ford's police interceptor specs.  I won't ever buy Comp springs again, and I wonder about their cams.
Phil

Offline 71chally416

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Re: Too much intake/exhaust overlap for the application
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2009 - 12:21:41 AM »
I've said my piece about Comp Cams QC a few times on here, and I was referring to their expensive roller grinds. 
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Offline moper

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Re: Too much intake/exhaust overlap for the application
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2009 - 08:01:30 AM »
I run a bunch of Comps, springs too. No issues with them and that is with checking the tension on them. Weird. I've always liked (and will really miss) Crane. If you're bored some time, I'd be interested to see a profiling of that Comp. I have the XE262 in my truck and it runs like bear and idles with 15" of vacuum at 650rpm (87 stock 360). I did find a Comp that was ground 1° off once a few years ago. I've never had a Crane or Engle with a problem, and every MP one has been WAAAAAAyyyyy off. 

Offline femtnmax

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Re: Too much intake/exhaust overlap for the application
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2009 - 11:59:41 PM »
I have the XE262 in my truck and it runs like bear
I had initially considered the XE262.  The XE256 ran well, but I thought I was loosing engine efficiency due to the unburned fuel.   Am I expecting too much?  Should the black pipes be "the price of performance"?   For example my mopar 360 build will be pushed more toward maximum street performance.
Phil

Offline moper

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Re: Too much intake/exhaust overlap for the application
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2009 - 12:06:02 PM »
The ports can tell a lot about how the engine likes it's life. Soot in the exh could be the result of a few things, but by changing the cam, you fixed the issue. Some carbon and soot in the exh port and pipes is normal, especially on a car with a choke that is misadjusted, or one that should have one and doesn't. So if you are expecting perfectly clean exh pipes, buy an EFI car with a catalytic convertor. What you dont want to see is any raw fuel, or carbon up in the intake ports. That is a sign of some severe parts mismatching. Carbon in the exh isnt a big concern to me normally.

Offline femtnmax

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Re: Too much intake/exhaust overlap for the application
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2009 - 08:31:30 PM »
I built the exhaust system per info from D. Vizard's advice in "Max performance chevy small blocks on a budget".  Maybe the exhaust is working well enough the engine needs less of a split duration cam (like the Voodoo) or could be a single pattern cam would now be aok.
So maybe the exhaust was over scavaging when using Comps 12 degree split seat to seat; whereas the Voodoo has only 6 degree split seat to seat.
Earlier I had a Crane 266H with 266/266 and 210/210 @ 0.05, rated at 1400 rpm minimum.  Even with the low axle gears the truck did not like it.  Very poor throttle response off idle, had to wait for rpm's to increase before torque showed up.
Phil