Author Topic: Interesting disk brake conversion read (Read 2645 times)

72hemi · « **on:** January 20, 2010 - 12:01:50 PM »

Check out this link I found this morning on disk brake conversions for mopars

http://waywardgarage.com/135/brake-swaps-for-mopar-musclecars/

I found the spindle section particularly interesting.

Spindle

The spindle to use when installing late-model breaks was introduced on 1973 B-body cars, and carried over on all later B- (Coronet, Satellite, Road Runner, Charger, GTX, R/T, Belvedere, Super Bee, Cordoba,�76-78 Fury,�77-78 Monaco and �78-79 Magnum), F-(�76-80 Volare, Aspen,Road Runner and R/T), J-(�80-83 Mirada and Cordoba), M- (�77-78 Diplomat, LaBaron, Caravelle and 5th Ave.) and R- (�79-81 New Yorker and St.Regis) bodies. Yes, even the transverse torsion bar cars used the same spindle. This spindle was designed to accept the post-�73 rotors, which incorporated a larger inner wheel bearing and seal.

The late model spindle retained the same steering arm/ball joint mount spacing specifications as the earlier B- and E- body spindle, and this is the key that makes late-model break swaps possible. It will bolt directly in place of the earlier spindle, and therefore allows the installation of any of the front disc setups found on the various post-�73 B-,F-, J-, M- and R- cars.

Unlike the �70-72 B-, and all E-body spindles, the late model spindle mounts the caliper to the rear of the rotor. This allows fitting disc breaks to the �66-69 B-bodies equipped with the factory front sway bar without interference problems.

Bullitt- · « **Reply #1 on:** January 20, 2010 - 03:22:37 PM »

I've read many times that the spindles are too tall & mess up the geometry, but these guys say it helps it...
Would be great if they are right.

Alignment notes/suspension geometry

The late model spindle installation will require you to realign your car. Because the upper ball joint mount is positioned slightly higher and inboard of the original spindles, it will increase the caster angle. This is something that most Mopars could use, as with a lowered front suspension height, often there is not enough adjustability in the control arm cams to get the suspension out of a severe negative camber situation. The late model spindles have the advantage of putting adjustability back towards the center in these cases. For those of you who lose the inside two inches of your front tires no matter how often the wheels are aligned, this can be reason enough for the swap. If more negative camber needs to be dialed into the suspension, simply adding a machined washer between the spindle and ball joint/steering arm will bring it out as much as desired. This is seldom necessary, but included for reference

HP2 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 20, 2010 - 06:20:12 PM »

Yes, they are taller. No the don't mess up the geometry, but they do change it.

IMO, the change is positive as it has several benefits; raises the roll center height (not to be confused with center of gravity height or ride height) which will reduce body roll, it increases the spindle axis inclination which improves return to center characteristics, they are taller which increases camber gain during bump, they are lighter which reduces unsprung weight.

They do not create excessive ball joint angle. They do not create excessive bump steer in the normal range of motion. They are not naturally more difficult to align.

However, despite what these guys say, they do not provide additional caster.

72hemi · « **Reply #3 on:** January 20, 2010 - 07:11:21 PM »

Can the drum version of these spindles be used with the AR Engineering Viper Caliper brackets?

Bullitt- · « **Reply #4 on:** January 20, 2010 - 07:18:07 PM »

No drums after 72 except I think a-bodies through 75

HP2 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 20, 2010 - 10:07:49 PM »

Drum spindles are only available in the shorter height. If you were motivated, you could weld them up, re-machine and re-taper them. That's a lot of work though.

Juggling pick up points can do all sorts of interesting things to geometry. Actually, the Hotchkis tubular uppers accomplish some of the same things with their relocated front pivot points.

Something I've always found interesting, up until lately, is that the mopar crowd typically avoided the whole tall spindle issue whereas the chevy guys have embraced it and taller spindles are usually high on the list of upgrades they make.

72hemi · « **Reply #6 on:** January 20, 2010 - 10:57:23 PM »

In that case why couldn't I manufacture my own caliper brackets and attach them to the disk brake spindles and make my own caliper spacers?

Aussie Challenger · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2010 - 06:02:38 AM »

Anything that makes the top wishbone sit flatter in normal ride position instead of sloping down is good. When the car is turned into a corner that wishbone will pull a bit more neg. camber which will help with tire adhesion, more grip.

HP2 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2010 - 07:15:42 AM »

Quote from: 72hemi on January 20, 2010 - 10:57:23 PM

In that case why couldn't I manufacture my own caliper brackets and attach them to the disk brake spindles and make my own caliper spacers?

Sure. While not common, there are people out there who do this. I spoke to ARE about doing exactly this a few years ago, and the said the had no interest in doing it because the Viper kits aren't really big sellers for them anyway, and with the trend towards 17"+ wheels, they came up with the 13" Viper kit instead.

GoodysGotaCuda · « **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2010 - 08:49:46 AM »

I have the late model b body spindles on mine with the 11 3/4" brakes up front. 255s on 17x8" wheels and haven't had any abnormal camber wear. Aligned mine by bubble gauge

Roppa440 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 21, 2010 - 08:52:33 AM »

Sorry but I am very confused reading this.

You guys seem to be suggesting that it is a good thing to fit a taller spindle to make it change camber more as the suspension moves. Have I read that right?

I always thought the whole point of a well engineered front suspension was to prevent camber changes with suspension movement?

Or have I read this whole thing wrong? $:-\$

Roppa440 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 21, 2010 - 08:56:34 AM »

I read it again and think I see what you are saying. You want camber to increase because you have a lot of body roll and so an increase in negative camber as it rolls will keep the tire flat on the ground.

Got it now.

72hemi · « **Reply #12 on:** January 21, 2010 - 01:08:37 PM »

I think I will work on locating a set of disk brakes with the taller spindle and 11 3/4 rotors and work on designing and fabricating viper caliper mounts. I've noticed I can pick up a set of viper calipers for around $300 (used). It may take me a while to get the parts and stuff together as I have limited time right now to perform the R&D but it is now higher on my to do list. Thanks for the input.

GoodysGotaCuda · « **Reply #13 on:** January 21, 2010 - 01:58:31 PM »

Quote from: 72hemi on January 21, 2010 - 01:08:37 PM

I think I will work on locating a set of disk brakes with the taller spindle and 11 3/4 rotors and work on designing and fabricating viper caliper mounts. I've noticed I can pick up a set of viper calipers for around $300 (used). It may take me a while to get the parts and stuff together as I have limited time right now to perform the R&D but it is now higher on my to do list. Thanks for the input.

Doesn't AR already sell a viper caliper kit? I know for a fact there is one that retrofits to Viper calipers and rotors.

HP2 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 21, 2010 - 02:06:18 PM »

Yes, but the ARE 11.75 Viper kit is based on using drum brake spindles, not disc spindles.

FWIW, the ARE Wilwood kit is designed for the Dynalite calipers mounting pattern, but there are a lot of other Wilwood calipers that mount to the same bolt pattern. Might be able to use a larger 4 piston or maybe even a six piston design with the existing ARE bracket on disc spindles. I haven't talked to them about it, nor I have I looked in to it myself. Personally, I'm more interested in pursuing an alternate control arm set up that will allow changes to geometery that would work with or without the tall spindles. How would $40 an arm for tubular arms with up to 10* of caster grab ya?

I also now ARE has a bracket that fits commonly available and somewhat inexpensive Porsche 6 piston calipers to the larger 13" discs. They also have been working on some alternate disc suppliers and have come up with some variations on that too.

Author Topic: Interesting disk brake conversion read (Read 2645 times)

72hemi

Interesting disk brake conversion read

Bullitt-

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HP2

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72hemi

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Bullitt-

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HP2

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72hemi

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Aussie Challenger

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HP2

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GoodysGotaCuda

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Roppa440

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Roppa440

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72hemi

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GoodysGotaCuda

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HP2

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