Can other fillers be applied over All-Metal?

[Chlngrcrzy]

This all metal stuff is hard to work down. Can a smoother finishing filler be applied over the top? 

[67vertman]

Yes, you can use a filler over All-Metal.  That is what I did on my sail panels.

[rallye73]

We used all metal over all the places we welded in patches or new panels. Worked it down then went back over that with Rage Gold and glaze. You should be fine.

[Chlngrcrzy]

sweet.  Thanks guys

[OxfordMotorSports]

This all metal stuff is hard to work down. Can a smoother finishing filler be applied over the top? 

Come on Challengercrazy!  There is a better way. Pick up a few sticks of body solder/lead, steel wool , wire brushes (air powered) , brushes , wooden solder paddles , um..... , tallow paddle lube , solder and tinning flux and tinning butter. You get the idea and I haven't had a customer WILLING to pay for it in a couple of years.

So go with the RAGE EXTREME like 90% of the rest of the world but I really wanted to tell you this. The ALL METAL ranks up there with RUST CONVERTERS and it's more hype then anything else. Hammer and dolly your metal as straight as possible - keeping the body filler to a minimum. I know you already know this. I prefer the EVERCOAT QUANTUM now because it comes in either low or high temp catalyst. Before that I used the plain RAGE, not the GOLD because it's MY opinion that it sands better. The GOLD seems a bit heavy. But use what ever makes you happy. I will also tell you this. When I finish sand any body filled area I shoot two wet coats of Feather Fill G2 over the filler and slightly into the clean panel. I NEVER USE GLAZE PRODUCTS - I HATE THEM. The G2 sprays on level and when you final block your filler it's smooth as glass and the body filler is sealed. Then I come back with PPG or HOK epoxy before sealing the vehicle for paint.

I hope this gives you a little more help with your issue. Good luck with your car.

Todd

OMS

NYC

PS

I have a 2PM meeting tomorrow with the HOK - VALSPAR reps at my shop here in Oxford. Has anyone out there ever sprayed Valspar's De Beers line of automotive paint? Please let me know.

[elitecustombody]

Come on Challengercrazy!  There is a better way. Pick up a few sticks of body solder/lead, steel wool , wire brushes (air powered) , brushes , wooden solder paddles , um..... , tallow paddle lube , solder and tinning flux and tinning butter. You get the idea and I haven't had a customer WILLING to pay for it in a couple of years.

So go with the RAGE EXTREME like 90% of the rest of the world but I really wanted to tell you this. The ALL METAL ranks up there with RUST CONVERTERS and it's more hype then anything else. Hammer and dolly your metal as straight as possible - keeping the body filler to a minimum. I know you already know this. I prefer the EVERCOAT QUANTUM now because it comes in either low or high temp catalyst. Before that I used the plain RAGE, not the GOLD because it's MY opinion that it sands better. The GOLD seems a bit heavy. But use what ever makes you happy. I will also tell you this. When I finish sand any body filled area I shoot two wet coats of Feather Fill G2 over the filler and slightly into the clean panel. I NEVER USE GLAZE PRODUCTS - I HATE THEM. The G2 sprays on level and when you final block your filler it's smooth as glass and the body filler is sealed. Then I come back with PPG or HOK epoxy before sealing the vehicle for paint.

I hope this gives you a little more help with your issue. Good luck with your car.

Todd

OMS

NYC

PS

I have a 2PM meeting tomorrow with the HOK - VALSPAR reps at my shop here in Oxford. Has anyone out there ever sprayed Valspar's De Beers line of automotive paint? Please let me know.

I used to spray the full Valspar line till Alber Kemperly opened up here in Jax ,Valspar stopped selling to my supplier and Kemperly started watering everything down,I used to get full coverage most of the time in one or two coats  with Valspar,Kemperly thinned all their stuff so much ,the white sealer couldn't cover light gray primer in 6 coats,so I quit using it, I've tried DeBeers stuff, wasn't impressed ,but I think it's because it was over reduced. Try Matrix,you'll like it,especially ms42 clear

[Chlngrcrzy]

Come on Challengercrazy!  There is a better way. Pick up a few sticks of body solder/lead, steel wool , wire brushes (air powered) , brushes , wooden solder paddles , um..... , tallow paddle lube , solder and tinning flux and tinning butter. You get the idea and I haven't had a customer WILLING to pay for it in a couple of years.

So go with the RAGE EXTREME like 90% of the rest of the world but I really wanted to tell you this. The ALL METAL ranks up there with RUST CONVERTERS and it's more hype then anything else. Hammer and dolly your metal as straight as possible - keeping the body filler to a minimum. I know you already know this. I prefer the EVERCOAT QUANTUM now because it comes in either low or high temp catalyst. Before that I used the plain RAGE, not the GOLD because it's MY opinion that it sands better. The GOLD seems a bit heavy. But use what ever makes you happy. I will also tell you this. When I finish sand any body filled area I shoot two wet coats of Feather Fill G2 over the filler and slightly into the clean panel. I NEVER USE GLAZE PRODUCTS - I HATE THEM. The G2 sprays on level and when you final block your filler it's smooth as glass and the body filler is sealed. Then I come back with PPG or HOK epoxy before sealing the vehicle for paint.

I hope this gives you a little more help with your issue. Good luck with your car.

Todd

OMS

NYC

PS

I have a 2PM meeting tomorrow with the HOK - VALSPAR reps at my shop here in Oxford. Has anyone out there ever sprayed Valspar's De Beers line of automotive paint? Please let me know.

   Well Todd , I appreciate the reply. I had originally planned on using lead ( i do have a lead kit , and have used it), but went with a thin layer of All metal instead.  The project is  my new deck lid that i welded rods on the sides and along the backside to fill up some gaps i did not like, so you see that it will take very little of any kind of filler to finish it.

[Challenger III]

Come on Challengercrazy!  There is a better way. Pick up a few sticks of body solder/lead, steel wool , wire brushes (air powered) , brushes , wooden solder paddles , um..... , tallow paddle lube , solder and tinning flux and tinning butter. You get the idea and I haven't had a customer WILLING to pay for it in a couple of years.

So go with the RAGE EXTREME like 90% of the rest of the world but I really wanted to tell you this. The ALL METAL ranks up there with RUST CONVERTERS and it's more hype then anything else. Hammer and dolly your metal as straight as possible - keeping the body filler to a minimum. I know you already know this. I prefer the EVERCOAT QUANTUM now because it comes in either low or high temp catalyst. Before that I used the plain RAGE, not the GOLD because it's MY opinion that it sands better. The GOLD seems a bit heavy. But use what ever makes you happy. I will also tell you this. When I finish sand any body filled area I shoot two wet coats of Feather Fill G2 over the filler and slightly into the clean panel. I NEVER USE GLAZE PRODUCTS - I HATE THEM. The G2 sprays on level and when you final block your filler it's smooth as glass and the body filler is sealed. Then I come back with PPG or HOK epoxy before sealing the vehicle for paint.

I hope this gives you a little more help with your issue. Good luck with your car.

Todd

OMS

NYC

PS

I have a 2PM meeting tomorrow with the HOK - VALSPAR reps at my shop here in Oxford. Has anyone out there ever sprayed Valspar's De Beers line of automotive paint? Please let me know.

I used to spray the full Valspar line till Alber Kemperly opened up here in Jax ,Valspar stopped selling to my supplier and Kemperly started watering everything down,I used to get full coverage most of the time in one or two coats  with Valspar,Kemperly thinned all their stuff so much ,the white sealer couldn't cover light gray primer in 6 coats,so I quit using it, I've tried DeBeers stuff, wasn't impressed ,but I think it's because it was over reduced. Try Matrix,you'll like it,especially ms42 clear

Boy..... I've  got a lot to learn!!! 

[OxfordMotorSports]

   Well Todd , I appreciate the reply. I had originally planned on using lead ( i do have a lead kit , and have used it), but went with a thin layer of All metal instead.  The project is  my new deck lid that i welded rods on the sides and along the backside to fill up some gaps i did not like, so you see that it will take very little of any kind of filler to finish it.

I know. I was really just joking about the lead. The ALL METAL is just like any other body filler. I used it back in the day and finally realized it was way to hard to sand for finish work. It would be good on your project for sure. It does have more strength to it. Your car looks great by the way. Green has always been my personal favorite color.

Lead work is a process that I'm sure most of the people on these boards could learn but it's only really used on high dollar restorations or full blown customs. It's truly overkill on anything else.

Todd

OMS

NYC

[Topcat]

Lead work is a process that I'm sure most of the people on these boards could learn but it's only really used on high dollar restorations or full blown customs. It's truly overkill on anything else.

I did leadwork for my very first time about a year and a half ago. It was difficult the very first time I tried it. After doing it 2 or 3 times, I can tell you that the learning curve on how to get it right isn't that long. An Oxy Acetlyne pencil tip torch end is a great tool for doing lead work.

 A few weeks ago, I spoke to a really good body dude. He reminded me that when it comes to bodywork, body filler should not exceed the thickness of a Nickel. I totally agree with that. And if you must fill any thicker than that, then go lead. Lead expands at the same rate as steel in hot sunlight. Plastic filler will expand out creating a band-aid effect. In later years, body filler has a tendency to crack. I'm not really sure how long the Metal filer lasts but so far it doesn't sound like it is worth the trouble.

[OxfordMotorSports]

I did leadwork for my very first time about a year and a half ago. It was difficult the very first time I tried it. After doing it 2 or 3 times, I can tell you that the learning curve on how to get it right isn't that long. An Oxy Acetlyne pencil tip torch end is a great tool for doing lead work.

 A few weeks ago, I spoke to a really good body dude. He reminded me that when it comes to bodywork, body filler should not exceed the thickness of a Nickel. I totally agree with that. And if you must fill any thicker than that, then go lead. Lead expands at the same rate as steel in hot sunlight. Plastic filler will expand out creating a band-aid effect. In later years, body filler has a tendency to crack. I'm not really sure how long the Metal filer lasts but so far it doesn't sound like it is worth the trouble.

You nailed it. Every aspect of the auto refinishing process takes a little practice. I don't care if it's lead work, blowing out sharp looking paint or just plain buffing it out, if you take your time and use the right material and equipment, any one can learn it. Throw a little skill in there and you can MASTER it.

The nickle is right on TopCat. Keep it thin. On your panels I don't care if you have to hammer and dolly your hands off - shrink it or stretch it -  keep your filler thin. Don't weld hot. Stitch you panels slow and cold. Most people make more work for themselves welding to hot  and fast.

Todd

OMS

NYC

[Chlngrcrzy]

I actually learned how to lead from Mike (Topcat).   

[Topcat]

I actually learned how to lead from Mike (Topcat).   

You picked it up quick.  good job.

One thing to add. After leadwork final grind, baking soda water mix brushed on, then wipe clean with very watery towel. Then Ospho it (metal prep/conditioner). This ensures no tinning acids weep up into primer or body filler after.