High stall torque converter question

[nqkjw]

Totally agree with Bill's post above.
If we start from scratch I'll ask you a question I always start with when argueing benefits of electric vs mechanical be it fuel pump,water pump or fan.

What's more important to you.Performance or reliability?
If performance,go electric.
If reliability then stick with mechanical.

The barracuda above is electric everything and I had to go to a 120 amp alternator to cope.
The 100amp I originally installed couldn't cope at night which really means the 120amp on there now is marginal at best.
I also deleted the ammeter circuit and fitted a 10mm diameter charge wire from the alternator to cope with constant big charge rate.

We have a lot of info on yours now and my gut feeling tells me the ideal setup for yours would be as follows.
Mechanical fan and shroud but make sure the fan is big enough and spaced correctly as I mentioned above.
Put a 16" electric pusher in front of the radiator as a backup.You can set it up thermostatically or just with an on/off switch at or under the dash.
Mount that trans cooler further forward.

This setup would be very similar to what's on my 440 challenger.
When I got my challenger it came from a bloke who owned a radiator shop in Knoxville,Tennesee.One would assume he could keep a car cool and it did. It was fine.It had a big 4 core 26" wide copper radiator with MP plastic shroud and a 16" mechanical plastic flexi fan.Before resto I did many 1/4 mile runs back to back and no problem.

After resto the addition of the A/C condensor showed the cooling to be deficient with idling or slow driving.Airflow problem.
First of all I temporarily hard wired two electrics (a 12"and a 10" - largest I could fit in there-a single 16" got in the way of the grille support)in front of the condensor.Bingo! Much better.But still not quite good enough for extended idling periods.

So then I made rubber seals to seal the shroud around the radiator.I also removed the 16" plastic fan and fitted an old chrysler 7 blade 18" steel flexi fan I had.Problem solved!

Maybe you could on sell that sweet looking twin thermo and shroud setup you have?
Or maybe you have another project you could use it on?

[beekppr]

You guys make some excellent points. I put in that extra thick Griffen radiator and after it was in, I realized it was a little too thick. I could squeeze in a solid fan with no clutch but there wasn't enough room for a clutch set up. I even checked the Hayden guide to look for thinner units from other applications but the thinnest one would still be very close to contacting the radiator.

I think moving the tranny cooler is my first priority this weekend. When I put my hand in front of the other portion of the radiator with the fans on, I can really feel massive air being pulled in. Having that cooler there has to be hurting me.

As far as the electric fans, the kit came with a small probe you insert into the fins which measures temp and signals the unit to turn on/off. The relay is also a control unit which has a small dial you can adjust to set the temp it turns on at. It comes preset to turn on at about 195 I think and it seems just right. They come on at 80% but speed up faster after a minute or two if the temp goes any higher. It's a pretty neat setup actually. They do draw alot of current but I am under the impression the relay handles the load. I mounted it neatly under my battery to hide it and the wire connection comes up the side and onto the battery rather than splicing into the existing wire harness.

I'll post my results when I make the changes. Thanks for all the help. It's a huge bonus to bounce ideas off of other people and get fresh perspectives.

[nqkjw]

It comes preset to turn on at about 195 I think and it seems just right. They come on at 80% but speed up faster after a minute or two if the temp goes any higher. It's a pretty neat setup actually.

Does sound like a good setup.
Also the fact that it wasn't cheap and it pulls a lot of current leads me to believe it should be good quality and effective.

195 to start turning at 80% sounds a little high to me.That means when it's turning 100% you're likely to be up around 210.
See where I'm going with this?
Can you readjust it to say,175-180 to start turning?
Or even temporarily bypass whatever controls the variable speed(just direct 12v to the fans via the relay)to see if the temp will hold down to the thermostat level?
Ideally you want the temp to be in the range of abt 175-200.

[beekppr]

I can turn the dial down and have it kick in sooner. It's a piece of cake and that was one of the features I looked for before going with this one. I'll do that today when I relocate the tranny cooler and test it.

Speaking of which, I am wondering how important that cooler is for my setup. I only added it because I figured the high stall converter would generate more heat so it was added insurance. Plus I had a smaller radiator at the time. Now with this thicker radiator, I am thinking it should be able to cool both the engine and tranny just fine without addional coolers.

It would be nice to ditch the tranny cooler since it is such an eyesore.

[mopar12372]

if your going to cruise on the street/race ect the cooler is needed . i would find another place for the cooler to mount. another openion is to adjust the fans to come on sooner as stated above first then make the changes . you have more than enough cooling capacity for the trans and the cooling system . trans coolers should be mounted 1-2 inches away from the radiator if mounting there. the cooler should never be mounted to the radiator. you can mount it other places but youll need another electric fan for the trans cooler.

[beekppr]

Okay, I removed the tranny cooler this morning. I also adjusted the fans to kick on sooner. The fans now kick on at 180 and back off at 175. With the cooler out of the way, the fans don't stay on long before the temp drops. I let it run for 30-40 minutes and it never got hot. I drove it at a variety of speeds for a good long time and could not get it to overheat. The hottest it ever got was around 190 and the coldest it would go was around 170. The only way I could get it to 170 was to drive 80 mph. The outside temp today was around 50 most of the time so we shall see how it behaves on a hot day. I'm hoping it won't change at all.

So I suppose the tranny cooler blocking part of the radiator was my issue the whole time.

I want to test it again on a warmer day and see if anything changes. If I'm still good, my next plan is to replace the restrictor plate with a 180 thermostat again and see what happens. I have a solid baseline right now so I'd like to test again in hotter weather before making anymore changes. When I had thermostats in it before, I was getting mixed results but now that I have removed the tranny cooler, I'd like to try it again.

Thanks for all the input everyone, it was very helpful.

[6packCuda]

You do plan on re-installing the tranny cooler don't you?

[beekppr]

I am not so sure I will. I was thinking of reinstalling it only if it seems I have to have it (such as burned fluid). I suppose with the higher stall speed converter, I may have to.

How will I be able to tell if it's really needed? If I use an infrared thermo gun on the incoming and outgoing lines, what would be an acceptable heat range? The radiator is huge and I'm thinking it is capable of doing the job without a secondary cooler.

If I do, I need to find a nice hidden area for it. My Superbee has only so much frontal opening so I don't want to block the incoming air. Especially now that I know it was giving me trouble before.

[nqkjw]

In my barracuda I've got a trans temp guage fitted.This car also has 4500 stall.
It reads much the same as engine temp.That is normal range appears to be around 180-210.
It has seen 240 on the odd occasion it's in very slow moving traffic for a long time.
It's a full race prepped 727 which does a LOT of racing and i get it checked and seviced by the trans builder regularly.
It's all been good.

Just out of interest,your tranny DOESN'T get hot when racing.Only when slow cruising.

I'd keep the trans cooler.

[beekppr]

I don't really plan to race, just street fun and cruising. Thanks for the temp. figures. That gives me a good starting point to see if I really even need the extra cooler in the first place. If the trans fluid temp stays low, I won't install the cooler. It's just unwanted clutter and I have been striving for the cleanest look possible. Thats why I never put on a radiator overflow tank

[6packCuda]

Ideally your transmission fluid should be kept around 175 - 180 degrees. For every 10 degrees hotter than that, the fluid life is cut in half. For example, ATF at 175 degrees can last for 100,000 miles. ATF at 195 is only good for 50,000 and at 215, it's good for only 25,000 and so on. There's no such thing as over kill when it comes to tranny coolers. Especially with a high stall converter. If you don't run a cooler, plan on changing your tranny fluid often.