So.... This guy's selling VINs on craigslist

Author Topic: So.... This guy's selling VINs on craigslist  (Read 5255 times)

Offline beekppr

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Re: So.... This guy's selling VINs on craigslist
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2011 - 09:23:02 PM »
Well, it so happens I am a police officer with 20 years experience.

Laws vary from state to state. In my state, there are tens of thousands of laws dealing with just about anything you can imagine. Even attorneys I deal with at my D.A.'s office don't presume to know everything.

As with many crimes, intent is one of the elements of a crime and is probably a factor here. Selling this item may very well fall into the catagory of merely selling a curio. If the seller advertises it as a way to switch VINs and get away with auto theft, then that may fall into a specific crime. But he isn't that dumb. He will never advocate anything illegal even though we all know what the deal is here.

There may be some obscure law somewhere that covers this situation but that doesn't make it a case with any real jury appeal. They take this stuff into consideration when deciding to prosecute cases with their limited resources.

This type of situation is what is legally classified as "chicken sh&t" and the DA would quickly tell you he/she cannot make chicken salad out of chicken sh&t.

As an example, I assisted a state investigator with a sting operation where they caught the bad guys making and selling unpasturized cheese - a health risk which is what prompted strict laws against such. When the air tight case was brought in for filing, the guy got laughed out of the DA's office.

For this situation to have any real merit as a crime, you would need to get this guy to admit he is selling this tag with the intent to aid a thief in the theft of a vehicle.

The more realistic situation is to catch the person who buys it in a VIN swap fraud or car theft situation.

And I can't say for sure in every state, but in my state, these people would be looking at some serious probation out of this. Nothing more

I hate thievery more than anyone but in this case, this guy is probably gonna get away with it until he crosses the wrong guy and gets himself shot.

That's my two cents worth.




Offline Pistol Gripper

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Re: So.... This guy's selling VINs on craigslist
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2011 - 11:56:10 AM »
$250 seems a bit high for a curio.

As long as it's against the law, I'll press the issue with the authorities.  I'd hate to buy a Big Block 4 speed Chevelle only to find out it started life out as a six banger powerglide car.

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Offline beekppr

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Re: So.... This guy's selling VINs on craigslist
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2011 - 11:03:18 PM »
No harm in trying. I wish there were more like you that took the time to do something. You might find that many authorities simply don't know the answer because this isn't the kind of thing they have to deal with everyday.

I think highway patrols all over the country are getting involved in car theft task forces and they might be your best bet.

Good luck and let us know if you have any success.

Don't rule out the brick through the window option. (just kidding of course...that would be illegal)

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Re: So.... This guy's selling VINs on craigslist
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2011 - 12:19:29 AM »
In some cases, a LEO is just not available to persue it. Budget cutbacks have been brutal to some departments.

The good news is that in some cases the NICB can block the VIN from EVER being registered again. Think of the look on the guys face that buys a Hemi Cuda VIN or paperwork, builds a car to match it then tries to register it at his local DMV & gets told "No!"   :thumbsup:

Offline UKcuda

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Re: So.... This guy's selling VINs on craigslist
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2011 - 05:55:58 AM »
This reminds me of the original Gone in 60 Seconds VIN swap deal at the beginning of the movie...  :sly:

Have you noticed the VIN they swap doesn't match the car anyway ?  You have to look close, I haven't watched it for a while but I seem to recall the VIN is a '70 XP code or something whereas the Challenger is a '73 or '74.  And they're supposed to be professionals at this stuff.
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Offline UKcuda

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Re: So.... This guy's selling VINs on craigslist
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2011 - 06:02:31 AM »
To satisfy my (poor) memory I just googled it - there's a discussion of it here: 

http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_5771-Dodge-Challenger-1970.html

Sorry, I'm getting a bit off topic.
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Offline Pistol Gripper

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Re: So.... This guy's selling VINs on craigslist
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2011 - 08:24:28 AM »
Maybe I should arrange to buy one off him and show up wearing my "D.E.I. Agent" jacket.  In a public location of course.

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Offline hebeegbz

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Re: So.... This guy's selling VINs on craigslist
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2011 - 10:20:44 PM »
Maybe I should arrange to buy one off him and show up wearing my "D.E.I. Agent" jacket.  In a public location of course.

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Offline Pistol Gripper

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Re: So.... This guy's selling VINs on craigslist
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2011 - 06:42:04 AM »
Doofenshmirtz Evil Inc.    For you Phineas and Ferb Fans.

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Offline priderocks

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Re: So.... This guy's selling VINs on craigslist
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2011 - 07:44:12 PM »
Over the years I have noticed e-body dash pads for sale on ebay, and quite a few have had the vin tag still attached. Wonder if these guys were "ratted out", or did nobody do anything because they were "just" 318 cars?

Offline Pistol Gripper

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Re: So.... This guy's selling VINs on craigslist
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2011 - 06:50:23 AM »
The guy quit listing them for a while, now he's back.  I sent this email: 
Quote
I’d like to buy this, how about we meet at the police station to transact the deal.  It should be a safe place to meet.

I got this reply: 
Quote
I have already talked to the sheriff about selling these tags as long as the vehicle was crushed it is legal to sell thats why I listed the vin# & my cell I have nothing to hide The tags came from my grandfather salvage yard that was crushed out 2o years ago

Now what ?

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Offline beekppr

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Re: So.... This guy's selling VINs on craigslist
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2011 - 10:04:37 PM »
Different states have different laws so he might be telling the truth. Only way to know for sure is to contact the Ohio state highway patrol and find out. Then I'd put him on notice with the actual law (not just the language but the specific code to go with it). It might be that he is not technically violating the law. It is also possible if he is, he does not understand why and will stop if if you prove it to him.

There is also a good chance that any violation you find will have a specific element as "with the intent to...." and if that is the case, he need only say he does not have the intent to do anything other than sell collectible items.

Offline whitesatinmopar

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Re: So.... This guy's selling VINs on craigslist
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2011 - 07:39:30 AM »
This is all very strange, it has always (at least to my understanding) illegal to sell VIN plates from parted out/crushed vehicles. But if this guy can get around it by seling "collectables" then who and why would anyone buy them?  RE: Joe Shmoe buys one, puts it on a rebodied car of same physical description of the VIN, when he applies for a title to purchase plates the vin is going to come up as invalid for various possible reasons. Also this guy may be stealing cars, parting them out and then selling off the VIN's, guess what happens when ole Joe above applies for a legal title with that number? I can't beleive that Ohio law enforcement when made aware of this would apparently ignore what this guy is doing.
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Offline Pistol Gripper

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Re: So.... This guy's selling VINs on craigslist
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2011 - 08:42:07 AM »
I just fired off an email to the Ohio BMV asking if it's legal or not.  We'll see what they say.

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