A Few Air Conditioning Questions Please?

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Offline IronChef

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A Few Air Conditioning Questions Please?
« on: March 19, 2011 - 12:49:11 AM »
Hey I could use some info.  1970 Challenger, 440 Magnum, Factory Air, all stock.  I know all about the Sanden compressors and their efficiency.  Call me weird ( :screwy: ), but I'd very much like to keep the stock setup.

Yesterday, I had the system evacuated and re-charged.  The system held pressure fine.  There were some bubbles in the receiver-drier glass however.  When I turn it on to Max A/C, it gets "somewhat" cool, but not cold, and the air blows ok, but I thought it might/should be a little stronger.  It was in the low 80's today and the A/C was just enough to keep me from sweating.  Any hotter outside and I'd have been toast.  Can anyone offer suggestions as to where my problem might be.  And is the stock blower motor just weak?  I know this is sort of open-ended, but I'd like to get it fixed right, and would appreciate knowing where to begin.  If I have to rebuild pieces on the system, that's what I'll do.

Thanks in advance for any help.  :cheers:
Stay thirsty my friends!




Offline quapman

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Re: A Few Air Conditioning Questions Please?
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2011 - 08:55:36 AM »
What was the system filled with?

R12 or R134?

If it was R12 (which I doubt), it should be ICE cold.
My name is Steve and I'm addicted to Challengers...


Offline thedodgeboys

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Re: A Few Air Conditioning Questions Please?
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2011 - 09:07:40 AM »
Could your AC box be plugged or the exchanger area full of leafs blocking it from the max air flow?

Are all your blend doors working correctly not letting it flow correctly? Heater off completely

Have you checked all the duct work under the dash for a good tight fit no leaks.

And what quapman said  :thumbsup:
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Offline IronChef

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Re: A Few Air Conditioning Questions Please?
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2011 - 11:03:08 AM »
Could your AC box be plugged or the exchanger area full of leafs blocking it from the max air flow?

Are all your blend doors working correctly not letting it flow correctly? Heater off completely

Have you checked all the duct work under the dash for a good tight fit no leaks.

And what quapman said  :thumbsup:

Quapman: As far as I know, it was filled with R134.  Honestly, I wasn't aware that you could still get R12  :dunno:

Heater was off completely and put in a brand new NOS heater valve so I know that part is in good shape.  I have not pulled the system apart to see if there's a blockage however.  The big mystery to me is why the temp isn't lower.  Lots of cold A/C systems with R134.
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Offline rallye73

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Re: A Few Air Conditioning Questions Please?
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2011 - 08:58:05 PM »
I had the ac changed to 134a in a '80 Camaro I once owned. It never got as cool as I thought it should be either. I was warned not to retro the old York compressor that was oem in our cars. I was told that 134a has alot higher head pressure than r12 and the compressor may not live too long.
John Moorman
1971 Challenger R/T 383 4 speed (waiting it's turn)
1973 Challenger Rallye 340 4 speed (undergoing full resto)
2003 Dodge SRT-4 Stage 3 turbo daily driver-been as fast as 11.97et
1995 Dodge Neon Sport Coupe DOHC 5 speed Nitro-yellow-green (one of 527 built)

Offline Challenger III

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Re: A Few Air Conditioning Questions Please?
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2011 - 10:30:52 PM »
Bubbles in the glass is from either low charge, or too high head pressure. A couple of things with 134a: it is not a "plug in" replacement for R-12, and hopefully your service technician changed the oil in the compressor to pag or poe. 134a will run a much higher head (compressor discharge) pressure and your condenser may not keep up with the load during hot days or low speed driving.
Mike    Yakima, Washington

Resto Thread:  http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=66668.0

Offline Cooter

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Re: A Few Air Conditioning Questions Please?
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2011 - 01:21:42 AM »
"Freeze 12"........
1958 plymouth Belvedere 2dr hd top "Christine" [OO)====V====(OO]
1969 dodge Charger "General Lee"         [___|______I______|___]                        
1968 Dodge Dart 2dr sedan 505" Stroker    (O]=0==========0=[O)                
1970 Challenger R/T Clone "Kowalski Special"   (OO) [___________] (OO)

Offline bb71challenger

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Re: A Few Air Conditioning Questions Please?
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2011 - 01:35:45 AM »
It should get plenty cold, even with 134. Did you replace the expansion valve? Make sure also that you are actually seeing bubbles in the sight glass and not dessicant floating around loose in the system. For what its worth I agree with you that our cars just look right with that big V-2 compressor sticking out at you.
1971 Challenger (OO==== ====OO) getting close!
1970 Challenger (OO########OO) long ways off
*Brett*

Offline IronChef

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Re: A Few Air Conditioning Questions Please?
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2011 - 12:04:05 PM »
I think this A/C System might just might be my undoing.  I'll give details on what I know about it.  First, as I said, the car is more or less bone stock.  The guy I bought it from had the engine rebuilt and put a fairly nasty cam in it.  IMHO, this is fine if you're going racing, but this car is worth a bunch of money so it shouldn't be cobbled up.  I had that cam taken out and a proper 440 grind put back in.  I also replaced what appeared to be an aftermarket heater control valve with an NOS unit (since the old one was frozen anyway).  I asked him about the A/C system.  In his words, he said he had removed the compressor to have it rebuilt.  He couldn't remember who did it.  He also said that the system "had been open" but had not been run since he re-installed the compressor and that the drier needed to be replaced.  But he seemed very vague about all of it.

After I had the cam replaced, I told my mechanic to refill the system and see what happens.  If I have to rebuild parts, I have to do it anyway, right?  He checked the system, said that he could find no leaks and that it held a charge.  He refilled it with three cans of R134.  Said that he wanted to see how it worked before topping off the system.  That's what I know to this point.  Sounds like I may have to rebuild everything again to make sure it's done properly.

I'm really not as concerned with actual airflow as I am with temperature.  Bad airflow is fairly easy to track down.  Bringing the temp down is another matter.  Very basic question here: What is it that actually makes the air cold?  Is it the compressor?  Or another part of the system?

Thank you for all your responses thus far...it's a big help.  :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: March 20, 2011 - 12:18:17 PM by IronChef »
Stay thirsty my friends!

Offline rallye73

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Re: A Few Air Conditioning Questions Please?
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2011 - 03:07:06 PM »
3 cans? Sounds like it could have too much freon in it.
John Moorman
1971 Challenger R/T 383 4 speed (waiting it's turn)
1973 Challenger Rallye 340 4 speed (undergoing full resto)
2003 Dodge SRT-4 Stage 3 turbo daily driver-been as fast as 11.97et
1995 Dodge Neon Sport Coupe DOHC 5 speed Nitro-yellow-green (one of 527 built)

Offline IronChef

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Re: A Few Air Conditioning Questions Please?
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2011 - 11:29:10 PM »
OK...UPDATE!!!

Took the car out today.  Punched the MAX A/C button and poof!  Almost immediately, nice cold air!  Went like this for 1/2 hour, then abruptly went back to warm.  About an hour later, I turned on the system again, and cold air once more.  Almost like there was a short that was turning the compressor off and on.

Ideas?

I'm kinda stoked because this might mean it won't be a major repair.  It was a pleasure to drive it while the air was on.
Stay thirsty my friends!

Offline Barracudadan

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Re: A Few Air Conditioning Questions Please?
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2011 - 10:21:41 AM »
[quote

 Said that he wanted to see how it worked before topping off the system.
[/quote]

Sounds like it may need more refrigerant take it back to the tech that did the work when the weather is warm and let him put his gauges on and see what it says. I know on residential AC systems charging the system is usually done in the hotter months something to do with outside air temp and the refrigerant gas I can`t really explain exactly why this is i`m sure someone here will know why.
Your coil could be icing up I had a pickup that I had replaced the compressor on it would blow nice and cold at first but eventually iced up then I got no airflow at all. I would shut off AC and let outside air blow through the vents and I could see the condensation blowing in through the vent as the ice melted.

Offline Strawdawg

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Re: A Few Air Conditioning Questions Please?
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2011 - 11:11:21 AM »
sounds right to me...once properly converted, it needs to have the correct amount installed and the pressures checked.

but as others have stated, one does not just put 134A into a system that had 12 in it originally.  It has to be cleaned out, the correct oil put in it, new dryer, etc.  Otherwise you will be buying a lot more parts to fix it shortly.

Offline IronChef

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Re: A Few Air Conditioning Questions Please?
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2011 - 03:25:08 PM »
Thanks guys.  I was able to find someone locally who specializes in A/C for classic cars.  Too many what-if's here for me to deal with myself...I'm not well versed in A/C, so I think it's best to let the experts handle it.

Appreciate everyone's help.  :cheers:
Stay thirsty my friends!

Offline ShelbyDogg

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Re: A Few Air Conditioning Questions Please?
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2011 - 07:43:50 AM »
Thanks guys.  I was able to find someone locally who specializes in A/C for classic cars.  , so I think it's best to let the experts handle it.

Hope your expert knows Mopar A/C systems. Most will say that but only know GM.

Make sure that you still have the rubber padding around the rear return tube. This padding keeps your expansion valve's temp tube out of the engine exhaust heat and should keep the evaporator from freezing up.  Make sure that lttle copper tube is pushed all the way in too.

 
Rob

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