My new stroker burning oil ***Engine pulled***

Author Topic: My new stroker burning oil ***Engine pulled***  (Read 28468 times)

Offline Belgium Cuda

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Re: My new stroker burning oil ***Engine pulled***
« Reply #90 on: July 18, 2011 - 11:06:10 AM »
Looking at all the grey "mud" in the engine the question is how is the cam and lifters? I don't see any
chance of reusing this block since it was a .040" oversize before this mess, finding a block and give it a 0.040" bore would save me the pistons at least.

Thanks for all help guys. :2thumbs:
Per
1970 Challenger Convertible - to become a Hemi tribute
1968 Charger R/T 500 cui stroker




Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: My new stroker burning oil ***Engine pulled***
« Reply #91 on: July 18, 2011 - 11:53:20 AM »
you would have to inspect the cam & lifters carefully the lobes should have a single track on the lobe on one side only to rotate the lifters & it should go to full contact approx 1/2 way up the ramp on the lobe to max the surface area against the high spring load

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Offline Moparal

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Re: My new stroker burning oil ***Engine pulled***
« Reply #92 on: July 18, 2011 - 01:50:34 PM »
 0.040 bore?   An RB 440 block at 499 cubes used to be 4.375 bore ( 0.055) x 4.15 stroke by 6.760 rods for a normal 500 build.


440source kit is like this in a 40 over bore Useing a 4.15 crank and 6.76 rods 84 cc eddy heads ar the closed chambered type. I see dish on yours. Are the heads open chamber?  is that a 1009 felpro head gasket @ .039 thick?  Your pistons almost look like they need knurling now.

4.360"
(.040 over) -4
(Flat-top) 1.867" -.018" 13.15 12.21 11.85 11.51 10.90 10.71 10.52 440.500.5094   10.90 com with a flat top and 84 cc

I have a 4.375 bore block ready to assemble.  I used to race it in my cuda, but went with a mega siameese block. This block made me 885 hp and I was afraid of breaking it. It has been decked, prof honed and clearanced for bme aluminum rods.  Not sure if I would sell it tho.  I can find you a block if you needed one, or even any member could. I do know the block I have is ready to assemble and has no issues.  It is a plateau hone as well as my mega block is.  I believe it is a 69 model block

What year block is yours Per?  After a certain yr, the #3 main with the thrust bearing was bigger/thicker.  If it was a newer block and old style bearing, then the crankshaft would have excessive travel and could cause the havok you are experiencing now.

Don's 496 I just built was a 72 block , so it has the old style main cap thrust face to. Around 75 was the change I think.  It would take close to 3500/4,000 dollars to build and prep a block from scratch to handle up to 700 hp useing your heads and cam and stay together.  For instance ... Dons block had almost 1k done in just billet mains, girdle, bore, cam bearings, honing, bottom hole taps, and hot tanking up to 4 times through each process.  Don bought the billet mains and the girdle.   My block is square decked and trimmed, so the 440 source kit at  .018 in the hole is less.  Then by the time you add the kit, the assembly labor , it stacks up on the cost.  I usually have to have the balance done myself, even if it comes balanced already. Then the crankshafts in most all kits has to have machine work done to be right.  Even the small end on the rods usually has a pin fit problem of being a little tight.

Sorry about your delema. I just now read your post.  If there is a way for me to help you out , drop me a line.. We (cc.c members) can atleast find you a good block that will take a 40 over bore if you use the same pistons.  They look like they need to be mic'ed and re checked to me. You may experience a little piston rattle since the knurl is worn off the side of the pistons. Hard to tell by your pictures.


This is the 512 kit I was thinking of doing something like this for my spare block

4.375
(.055 over) -4
(Flat-top) 1.485" -.010" 13.82 12.81 12.42 12.06 11.40 11.12 11.00 440.512.5073   4.375x4.25 x 7.100 rod length





Offline Belgium Cuda

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Re: My new stroker burning oil ***Engine pulled***
« Reply #93 on: July 18, 2011 - 03:12:14 PM »
Hi Alan :wave: Very nice of you to jump in. I always called it a 500 but indeed it's a 496 since it's a
4.360" bore. It's a 440source kit but since the comp for that combo wasn't ideal I went for Diamond dishpistons -13cc together with my 84cc eddyheads, now I see 440source also carry those ones.
The cam is a Engle K60 with 112° LSA, stock rockers. When I read all the posts here from you guys I see that I not only took the wrong machineshop but I also didn't consider doing anything about the topdeck or the main bearing channel. My block is the original -68 from the car  :( so I guess it's better to save that one for the future if someone wants to build the car back to stock. Concerning the pistons I  can have them checked at the sixpack speedshop here in Belgium, they have a very good enginebuilder. I would appreciate if I could get some help finding a 440 block so I can resuse most of my parts, I certainly understand that a good longblock is expensive.

Neal, I will let the speedshop meassure and check my camshaft like you mentioned.

Don't know if the pic of the piston gives any info to you?

Per
1970 Challenger Convertible - to become a Hemi tribute
1968 Charger R/T 500 cui stroker

Offline jimynick

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Re: My new stroker burning oil ***Engine pulled***
« Reply #94 on: July 18, 2011 - 08:35:24 PM »
Per, what did you mean when you said the ring gaps were "twice as large at the ridge area"? You must mean the gaps were bigger just UNDER the ridge area where the wear occurred. What ARE the gap sizes? The old rule of thumb was .004" for every 1" of bore size, but modern thinking runs in the low to mid 20's for an engine your size. There are a limited number of reasons for this thing eating itself and I believe they are 1: ring gaps set too tight, 2: piston/wall clearance not right, 3:Sabotage-not likely, 4: excessive fuel washing the walls to the point that there was no lubrication resulting in a metal to metal situation, 5: poor machining- look at the marks on the cylinder wall, you can see the different colours where the piston did or didn't rub on the wall. This is usually caused by not torque plate honing the block correctly. Did you check to make sure the rings were put on correctly (right side up)? As for the pistons, they'll rattle when she's cold and COULD cause a ring seating issue- possibly. If it were MY money, I'd buy a block from 440 Source, machined and ready to go and put it on a slow moules boat to my favourite Belgium town Brugge, have one of the many excellent beers there and consider that I'd just had an expensive lesson in machining ethics. Good luck :thumbsup:

Offline dutch

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Re: My new stroker burning oil ***Engine pulled***
« Reply #95 on: July 19, 2011 - 02:06:13 AM »
hey Per,

sorry to see the mess you`re in...  :eek4:
there were a couple of bare 440 blocks on Marktplaats a little while ago. I think they were offered by one of the members of mopar.nl
Can`t find them now but it may be worth it to ask around on that board.  good luck.
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Offline Belgium Cuda

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Re: My new stroker burning oil ***Engine pulled***
« Reply #96 on: July 19, 2011 - 07:07:33 AM »
hey Per,

sorry to see the mess you`re in...  :eek4:
there were a couple of bare 440 blocks on Marktplaats a little while ago. I think they were offered by one of the members of mopar.nl
Can`t find them now but it may be worth it to ask around on that board.  good luck.

Thanks Bart, will listen around a little bit with those guys.

Per
1970 Challenger Convertible - to become a Hemi tribute
1968 Charger R/T 500 cui stroker

Offline UKcuda

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Re: My new stroker burning oil ***Engine pulled***
« Reply #97 on: July 20, 2011 - 03:29:48 AM »
I suppose this means you'll be missing the Nats again  :crying:
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Offline Belgium Cuda

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Re: My new stroker burning oil ***Engine pulled***
« Reply #98 on: July 26, 2011 - 10:27:01 AM »
I suppose this means you'll be missing the Nats again  :crying:

The Challenger will propably be ready for the Nats before the Charger. :eek4:

Per
1970 Challenger Convertible - to become a Hemi tribute
1968 Charger R/T 500 cui stroker

Offline Belgium Cuda

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Re: My new stroker burning oil ***Engine pulled***
« Reply #99 on: August 17, 2011 - 03:08:35 PM »
Machineshop in The Netherlands specialized in V8 engines told me the honejob was the reason for my failure, leading to metal to metalwear, not enough oil between rings and walls.

Block can be bored to .060", will that not be weak for a stroker?

My Engle K60 still have to be checked for wear, really loved that cam and I don't think they make them anymore.


Per
1970 Challenger Convertible - to become a Hemi tribute
1968 Charger R/T 500 cui stroker

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: My new stroker burning oil ***Engine pulled***
« Reply #100 on: August 17, 2011 - 07:20:56 PM »
Have the block sonic checked , most 440s are fine there but some are not , you need at least .125 on the thrust side minimum , a short rod stroker will side load the piston into the cyinder wall harder so keep that in mind as well

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t