Eating starters

[GreenFish]

So my 70 Cuda with a 440 constantly eats starters.  It has been doing it for some time and thought maybe I'd post here to see what you guys thought.  By eating starters, I mean the cast aluminum nose that houses the drive gear keeps breaking off.  I currently have a Tremec 5 speed but it has done it in the past when I had the 727 in there.  The starter usually still works but ill get pieces of aluminum flying around inside the bellhousing and it usually damages something.

Any ideas on why this is happening?

[Grec]

I would question whether it's installed at a slight angle. That sounds like something getting torque that's not supposed to.

Have you used the same bellhousing for both transmissions?

[ChallengerHK]

I was thinking along similar lines, but if he had a 727 before that would have its own bellhousing.

[joelson6]

yea, it sounds like it's not lined up right.

i have a lakewood bell on my '74, which has a bolt on cup for the nose of the starter. i starter bolts loosened
on me and snapped the nose off my light weight starter. i had the nose welded back on and put it back in and
no more problems.

and there's no weird noise when you engage the starter? 

[GreenFish]

Sorry for the late reply..

Yes, as said obviously the 727 and he tremec have different Bell housings. I am using a Lakewood for the tremec.

Joelson6, No there has never been any noise when starting. The starters even continue to work after they break the nose off.  The problem is I get pieces of aluminum that have done damage to inside parts like pressure plates.  Could I just continue to use the broken starter. Does it need the nose?

[Bullitt-]

I Googled "starter broken nose" and found several suggestions that a backfire can cause this...most were posts on cheby sites. 

[Chryco Psycho]

I have seen this before , it makes no sense to me as the starter is bolted to the bell on both , the Lakewood could have problems with the alignment , the factory 727 should not though & why is the same car having problems with 2 totally different set ups ?

[ChallengerHK]

Is the trans properly torqued to the block?

[mojavered]

Sometimes those mini started need to be ground down some to fit in straight.  Maybe a little off the top is in order to prevent this?

[moparmaniac59]

I have the same problem and have broken the nose off of 4 mini-starters now. Initially the problem was with with the start retard circuit on my MSD 6al digital ignition box. It was too mcuh ignition retard and caused a backfire issue while cranking and broke several starters. I corrected that problem and continued to break starters. Now the problem is (I'm guessing here, but pretty sure) my ring gear on the torque converter probably has a broken or damaged tooth. There may be a piece lodged in between the teeth or one that is broken/chipped or bent. I would suggest that you check and make sure you too don't have a broken and/or damaged tooth on your ring gear and check your flex plate as well for cracks or damage. You may end up having to drop the transmission to really check it, but a good bright light and a mirror will work. Just make sure to check the entire ring gear. One little tooth damaged is all it takes!! I'll be interested to see what you find. 

                                                                             Matt B.

[joelson6]

are you using a regular Chrysler starter or a light weight starter?

alright, you said your using a Lakewood bell. now, what size flywheel? 11" or 10.5"

the Lakewood bells have to be set up for 11" or 10.5" out of the box. depending on the flywheel your using, that will dictate
where the cup for the nose of the starter bolts to. also if you use the 10.5" (like i do), there's an adapter that holds the
starter in. so, there's not 2 bolts going through that starter and bell. one bolt goes through the starter and the other goes
through the adapter. there's a tab on the adapter that goes into the other starter bolt hole. believe it or not, that holds
the starter in with the 10.5" flywheel.

on to the transmission. the 23 spline trans has a smaller bearing retainer and throwout bearing compared to
the 18 spline trans. the hole in the bell for the bearing retainer is the larger of the two (18 spline). if you install the 23 spline
trans, there's an adapter ring that takes up the difference in the size of the bearing retainer.

now you have the 5 speed trans, what size is the bearing retainer? is there any gap between the bearing retainer and the
hole in the bell?

if something is mismatched that could be your problem. but why it was doing it with the auto trans too? ? ? ? that's weird 


the other thing i'm interested in knowing is if the nose of the starter breaks off on the first start. or, does it take a while and eventually
break. when it does break, are the starter bolts still tight or did they loosen up. if they loosened, sounds like somethings vibrating
them loose.

[Chryco Psycho]

Weird Idea but if the bolt pattern on the rear of the block is cast off center a little so the crank was not centered it would have more effect with the 4 spd than the Auto but it would put the starter too tight to both . Did you dial in the belhousing when you went to manual trans ?
 Lakewoods are not very accurate as far as centering goes .
 Yes you can continue to use the starter without the nose .
23 spline trannys do have both 4.35" brg retainers & 4.80 " BTW

[GreenFish]

are you using a regular Chrysler starter or a light weight starter?

alright, you said your using a Lakewood bell. now, what size flywheel? 11" or 10.5"

the Lakewood bells have to be set up for 11" or 10.5" out of the box. depending on the flywheel your using, that will dictate
where the cup for the nose of the starter bolts to. also if you use the 10.5" (like i do), there's an adapter that holds the
starter in. so, there's not 2 bolts going through that starter and bell. one bolt goes through the starter and the other goes
through the adapter. there's a tab on the adapter that goes into the other starter bolt hole. believe it or not, that holds
the starter in with the 10.5" flywheel.

on to the transmission. the 23 spline trans has a smaller bearing retainer and throwout bearing compared to
the 18 spline trans. the hole in the bell for the bearing retainer is the larger of the two (18 spline). if you install the 23 spline
trans, there's an adapter ring that takes up the difference in the size of the bearing retainer.

now you have the 5 speed trans, what size is the bearing retainer? is there any gap between the bearing retainer and the
hole in the bell?

if something is mismatched that could be your problem. but why it was doing it with the auto trans too? ? ? ? that's weird 


the other thing i'm interested in knowing is if the nose of the starter breaks off on the first start. or, does it take a while and eventually
break. when it does break, are the starter bolts still tight or did they loosen up. if they loosened, sounds like somethings vibrating
them loose.

Ill do a check on everything as you suggest.   Im going to pull it back out this weekend. The starter usually breaks after its been in the car a while.  updates Tuesday

[GreenFish]

Weird Idea but if the bolt pattern on the rear of the block is cast off center a little so the crank was not centered it would have more effect with the 4 spd than the Auto but it would put the starter too tight to both . Did you dial in the belhousing when you went to manual trans ?
 Lakewoods are not very accurate as far as centering goes .
 Yes you can continue to use the starter without the nose .
@3 spline trannys do have both 4.35" brg retainers & 4.80 "

Thanks, i may just band saw the rest of it off to make sure no more pieces break off and re-install