Author Topic: Smoking Gauges?  (Read 4295 times)

Offline Tonker1

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Re: Smoking Gauges?
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2014 - 09:05:19 PM »
When you lost the ground, the power found the next easiest path.  Unfortunately that sometimes takes it places you don't want it to go and it fries things along the way.  For example, maybe a circuit that was meant to take only 1 amp to run a gauge is now back feeding the headlights to the tune of 10 amps.  Now the wire and circuit board runners that were rated for 1 amp become heated and start smoking.  They may not immediately burn up, but now they're weaker and more prone to catching fire in the future. 

Before putting power back to it again I'd check the board, wires and gauges for signs of burning or melting.  You'd hate to lose a Rallye cluster or even your whole car for a simple wiring problem.  Check for yellow, brown or black marks on the board, wiring and gauge interiors.  Sniff around and see if you smell burnt plastic or anything out of the ordinary.  It's better to repair or replace anything now, than let it ride and have gremlins in the future.

I've opened up the water temp, fuel level, oil pressure and tach gauges and they all appear to be fine inside except for the water temperature gauge. Although having never looked inside gauges before I have nothing to compare against. I took some high resolution photographs. Any second opinions would be much appreciated.

In my opinion, the only gauge in question for damage is the water temperature gauge, where as the other two gauges have bright coppery looking coils, the water temperature gauges coil is black and greasy looking.

All of the gauges had a hard yellow solid inside underneath the terminal wires. It looks like the fluidy leak that comes out of old solder. I take it that those marks are fine.





Offline Tonker1

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Re: Smoking Gauges?
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2014 - 09:09:17 PM »
The rest of the photographs.

I would not recommend smoking gauges  . . . . Well unless you live in Colorado!   :drunk:

That's one perspective that's for sure  :roflsmiley: unfortunately its like 90 outside

Offline Tonker1

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Re: Smoking Gauges?
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2014 - 10:37:28 PM »
I took a second look at my wiring today, everything works perfectly and operates normal. The only wiring I'm not sure about is the wiring of the gauges. The wiring diagram for the gauges from painless performance was generalised for modern gauges.

The feed wires are correct, ie, sender to gauge. It is the positive source wires I'm not sure about. Aside from the speedo, non of the gauges worked when I purchased the car and the gauge positive wires have not been altered.

In terms of electrically driven gauges, the fuel level gauge works as does the tach. I'm waiting on new senders to arrive for the water temp and oil pressure. On that note, are there any extra oil system ports on the 340 block? The port near the distributor is filled by an auto meter gauge. I'm also waiting on an oil pressure safety switch to wire to my fuel pump.

Does any of the wiring in the images need to be altered?

Thanks in advance

Offline dodj

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Re: Smoking Gauges?
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2014 - 11:28:02 PM »

Is it a problem that the voltage limiter is stuck on 12vdc on?
It will smoke your gauges....

Get a new one. New electronic 5v regulators go for about $40 - $50 i think.
Scott
1973 Challenger  440 4 spd 
2007.5 3500 6.7 Cummins Diesel, Anarchy tuned.
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Offline ChallengerHK

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Re: Smoking Gauges?
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2014 - 01:55:32 AM »
Actually folks there is basically nothing wrong with these ammeters. They are after all 40+ years old and require maintenance. What happens is the fibre insulators dry out and shrink. When that happens the terminals become loose inside the gauge.

It sounds like you know a lot more about thi than I do. That being said, my understanding is that the bulkhead connectors that feed the ammeter gauge were designed to be barely up to snuff when they were new, and that 40 years of age, corrosion, etc. make that problem even worse.

The other reason I say that it's a bad design is that ... it can cause the car to catch on fire  :bigsmile:  When a voltmeter fails, you just have a non-working gauge.

Still, I think you're right that they can be overhauled and made safer and more reliable, but I personally would rather just do away with the ammeter and have a voltmeter. A lot safer, a lot more reliable from an overall vehicle perspective. When my ammeter failed I was on the road, at night, and I suddenly no power to anything, including headlights or hazard flashers. I didn't have a fire, but it was still not fun.


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Offline dodj

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Re: Smoking Gauges?
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2014 - 08:17:37 AM »
Actually folks there is basically nothing wrong with these ammeters.
Still, I think you're right that they can be overhauled and made safer and more reliable, but I personally would rather just do away with the ammeter and have a voltmeter.
High current electrical connections are always a problem no matter where they are. Cars, houses, anywhere. If you have an on-demand water heater, take a look at the connections. You will see they require yearly maintenance as well. The heat/cool cycle will cause a problem if not regularly maintained. IMO, you are both correct, it's just not that many people want or will regularly maintain those ammeter contacts.  :2cents:
Scott
1973 Challenger  440 4 spd 
2007.5 3500 6.7 Cummins Diesel, Anarchy tuned.
Good friends don't let friends do stupid things. ........alone.

Offline HP_Cuda

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Re: Smoking Gauges?
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2014 - 01:07:14 PM »

Your water temp guage shows signs of a short which is why you see your copper wire burnt up. This is the result of the outer coating of the wire has been basically vaporized.

Check all connections with the water temp guage and isolate any shorts.

 :2cents:
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Offline Jesus H Chrysler

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Re: Smoking Gauges?
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2014 - 04:19:23 PM »
Your water temp guage shows signs of a short which is why you see your copper wire burnt up. This is the result of the outer coating of the wire has been basically vaporized.

Check all connections with the water temp guage and isolate any shorts.

 :2cents:

 :iagree:  That's your culprit.  The outer coating on that coiled wire is basically a really thin version of the plastic insulation on normal wires.  It does melt and then shorts the whole coil.  And it makes smoke.  Based on my experience it looks like that's what happened to your water gauge.  Judging by your pics, the other gauges look good so you might get away with replacing (or not connecting) that one gauge and replacing your regulator.
Yes I own a 1972 Dodge Challenger Convertible T/A S/E with a 440 Six Pak. Can it get any more wrong?

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Greg, in the middle of MA has:
1970 Dodge Coronet 440 "Zom Bee"
1972 Dodge Challenger convertible 440 5 speed.
1973 Dodge Challenger 318 "Brown Bomber"
2012 Dodge Challenger R/T Classic Blackberry Pearl.
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Offline Tonker1

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Re: Smoking Gauges?
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2014 - 02:10:10 AM »
Thank you everyone for all of the input!
After spending so much time working on replacing the entire wiring harness and with all the other work I've done under the dash, an electrical fire would be traumatizing to say the least!

I just ordered a replacement water temp gauge from year one and I'm looking at a solid state adjustable voltage regulator. They are $15 and will not fail or overheat as readily as bimetallic style regulator. Another option is a solid state regulator built into an original case, which will make mounting easier

http://www.dimensionengineering.com/products/de-swadj
http://www.drakeautomotivegroup.com/Store/Product/B9MZ-10804-EADJ.aspx?wid=141

Offline Jamiez

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Re: Smoking Gauges?
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2014 - 06:43:07 AM »
RT Engineering makes Mopar specific ones (and tach upgrades):

http://rt-eng.com/rte/index.php/RTE_limiter


Offline Tonker1

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Re: Smoking Gauges?
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2014 - 07:36:49 AM »
Fair enough,
There are more options then I realised.

Cheers