3 speed manual, to 727, to 4 speed

[msbaugh]

...That's the progression my now 440 70 Challenger will have been through. From what I can tell, it's still got a 3 speed manual hump in the car, it was just hacked up a bit for the 727 (cable shift valve body).  I also left the clutch pedal assembly in and just tucked it under the carpet.  Z bar bracket and everything is still there.  I'm thinking I have a significant cost advantage moving towards a 4 speed or the new passon unit...  Does anyone know what the differences are between the extras on an original /6-3 speed manual and a 4 speed manual? I'm hoping I'm halfway there without doing anything yet.

I'm fairly knowledgable and I've done some research already. Just need some clarification.
-it seems like my existing trans crossmember and mount for the 727 will work with the 4 speed?
-is clutch/z bar/floor jump the same for a 3 speed manual and 4 speed manual
- also, basically, how will a specifically selected rear gear ratio, cam shaft, and stall convertor set-up react when I get rid of the 727 for a manual? The street manors are very rough currently with the high stall and 3.93 gears. I want to keep the gears and go to the 4 speed... Would it be wise to match my final drive ratio without knowing the cam specs (I gambled buying a rebuilt 440 for a good price even without knowing the specs)

[TelisSE440]

Hey msbaugh, that's a rare car there (/6 3 speed), anyway The crossmember and mount can be used for the 4 speed. The floor tunnel (sheet metal) is the same but the clutch - bellhousing assembly is different. The z bar, is the same but it has another return fork spring and the six cylinders additionally had also some kind of hook along with a torque shaft return spring and bracket (screws etc). I don't believe you'll have street problems going into manual as I've only driven manuals not autos 

Anyway there is a nice article

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=84505.0

[Chryco Psycho]

Cam choice is far less critical with a 4 speed as you can stall the load to the engine at any rpm , with 3.93 rear gears I would be looking at an A833 OD ,it would act like 2.76 rear in OD

[msbaugh]

here is my crossmember and rigged up job getting the 727 to fit.  It's a B&M street stick with a shift cable routed to the lever on the transmission.  The B&M shifter is mounted up where the original shifter location was.  It is aft of the crossmember.  Does this look like the sheet metal from a manual?  My 727 recently broke and I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to do the conversion.

Matt

[TelisSE440]

Yes, this is the sheetmetal,  as you see it has a square room for the shifter mechanism to fit in. You should also have a square hole in the upper part, for the shifter to enter the driver compartment, I can't see, it's dark. Do you have it or it was welded to close?

[TelisSE440]

That's the tunnel of a manual

['Cuda Hunter]

Does this help?  /6 3 speed hump

['Cuda Hunter]

['Cuda Hunter]

I have had two different cross members in the past.  Had them laid next to each other and they were definitely different.
 I thought they were a little different between manual and automatic. 
 Can someone explain what the different cross members are for?  I'm assuming it would be a 70 difference from 71-74 thing. 

[msbaugh]

Yes, this is the sheetmetal,  as you see it has a square room for the shifter mechanism to fit in. You should also have a square hole in the upper part, for the shifter to enter the driver compartment, I can't see, it's dark. Do you have it or it was welded to close?

Yes I have the square part on the top right to the left and behind the crossmember. I just made a square plate and bolted it on the sheet metal so I could mount the b&m auto shifter

Great looks like I've confirmed that my tunnel is a manual

['Cuda Hunter]

I was looking through pictures and figured out what the difference was between the cross members.  It was where the bolt holes go through the tunnel and mount.

[msbaugh]

I was looking through pictures and figured out what the difference was between the cross members.  It was where the bolt holes go through the tunnel and mount.

So I'm guessing this means my existing CM will work in its place then... Just doesn't seem like much room for a shift tower under there I could be wrong!

[msbaugh]

Well i finally got around to pulling the transmission today.  Took 4 or 5 hours but that's only because I was working on my back.

I have two questions...

1.  I don't think my crank is drilled for a pilot bushing for a 4 speed.    Can anyone confirm this by looking at my pictures?  Also... I have heard of the roller bearing conversion for auto cranks (this is a 1967 440), can anyone share their experience with this and is it a hack job to make it work?  I want to do this right and have a reliable swap for a healthy 440

2. Look at my torque convertor picture.  It has only one small weight on it... this means my engine is externally balanced correct?  Or is this a weight TCI used to 0 balance it.  How can I tell and how do I get a flywheel or another converter to work if it is, in fact, externally balanced?

[msbaugh]

After doing some searching..Let me make this easier in hopes that someone will answer

How deep does the pilot hole have to be?

Is this externally balanced looking at the converter? It's a 67 440 with the smaller 1" harmonic balancer so I'm pretty sure it's forged