Author Topic: SILVER SPORT/KEISLER 4-SPEED AUTOMATIC 4L60  (Read 2383 times)

Offline Mopar Mitch

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SILVER SPORT/KEISLER 4-SPEED AUTOMATIC 4L60
« on: March 13, 2016 - 05:57:57 PM »
Any members here with experience installing the 4-speed automatic o/d trans from either Keisler or Silver sport?

I have a small block 340 and 727, 3.23, that I'm considering changing the trans to the 4L60 trans which is offered  from Silver Sport.  My engine bay is empty and freshly redone.... I believe I'd have to bend forward the firewall lips???

Comments, experience, results -- pros/cons?  Summer wknd highway cruising to/from road course track events (HSAX/HPDE).

I know Brad's T/A has the trans behind his BB engine.. but anyone else?... with a SB engine?

T/Anks ahead!
Autocross/road racers go in deeper... and come out harder!

See  MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, AUGUST 2006 ISSUE for featured article and details on my autocross T/A.




Offline 1 Wild R/T

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Re: SILVER SPORT/KEISLER 4-SPEED AUTOMATIC 4L60
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2016 - 06:38:39 PM »
With a small block I'd do the 518 again in a minute....  I did it fifteen plus years ago & it's still likely the best upgrade I did to that Challenger.... No cutting of the body, I put 4.30 gears in the car & it cruises along in O/D at 75 MPH spinning about 2700 rpms...   With a 3.73 gear it would be like having a 2.57 gear... Around 2300 rpm's @ 75...
JS27N0B 70 Challenger R/T Convertible  FJ5 Sublime, Show Poodle w/90,000 miles since resto
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Offline brads70

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Re: SILVER SPORT/KEISLER 4-SPEED AUTOMATIC 4L60
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2016 - 10:06:49 PM »
I'll add to what was said, make sure you realize  how your combo will react to the OD  RPM wise. I have 3:54 rear gears and wish I had 3:73 as the engine is not "happy" 2000 rpm's.  Yes you will need to fold firewall lips( at about 10 and 2 o'clock positions)  as you said, and make sure you cut off these two square bosses ( above the "9S" as they hit the floor. I also drilled and tapped into the block to mount the cooler lines.





Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline Mopar Mitch

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Re: SILVER SPORT/KEISLER 4-SPEED AUTOMATIC 4L60
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2016 - 12:21:33 PM »
Wild RT and Brad -- T/Anks for your replies/comments.  My common hwy rpms range ~3000-3500 (70-80 mph)... nice cruising speed but the rpms are a little too high at times for lengthy trips.... its strong there, but just a bit high and the engine temp gauge tends to increase in the summer at those higher long-distance periods.   Cam is a low-profile (actually a stock 340-cam)... nothing big for now, but maybe a little bigger cam in the future with the new engine later this year or next year.

I've also considered running a 2.9 axle gear which I recently obtained (needs to be installed into a spare 8-3/4 center section sitting aside).   For a pylon AX, the 2.9 would be good for all-1st gear during the run.  For a higher-speed road course event (HSAX/HPDE), per my calculations, :stomp: the 2.9 would keep the rpms about 500 lower than current in 2-3 gears of my 727;  same for the hwy cruising.

I appreciate your comments given.
Autocross/road racers go in deeper... and come out harder!

See  MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, AUGUST 2006 ISSUE for featured article and details on my autocross T/A.

Offline brads70

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Re: SILVER SPORT/KEISLER 4-SPEED AUTOMATIC 4L60
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2016 - 02:16:23 PM »
3:90 would be a good choice keep in mind the gear ratio's for the 4L60..... Gear ratios:



1st 3.059
2nd 1.625
3rd 1.000
4th 0.696
reverse 2.29
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0

Offline jordan

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Re: SILVER SPORT/KEISLER 4-SPEED AUTOMATIC 4L60
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2016 - 01:36:33 AM »
Hey Mitch, I have the 4l60E behind my big block.  I love it.  The install was straight forward.  Hammer the pinch welds at 10 and 2.  If I have to do it again, I would have the whole thing wired up on the trans, and then feed it backward through the firewall to the computer.  I did not have to grind the tabs that Brad had to.  Getting the throttle position sensor mounted took a little bit of planning and execution.  I put mine on the frame rail where the battery is supposed to live in the engine compartment.  Rebuilding the shifter is OK, even though it is not entirely clear about how the detents work.  Adjusting the cable was easy.  I had to make a heat shield for the exhaust to protect the speedo cable where it connects to the trans.  Driveshaft measurement was easy.  You will have to measure the driveline angles and adjust the rear diff accordingly.  My speedo gear was the wrong size, making for a super way off speedo readout.  I changed that from a ford dealer.  Hopefully yours will be closer than mine was.  Easy to change anyway.  Im not a great computer guy, but was able to load a program on a laptop, get the computers to connect, and set up a basic parameter.  Once the TPS is zeroed, you can drive.  I like my shift points.  Its smooth and quiet.  It hits hard when you want it to.  You can always manual shift the stick too.  I am running 3:23 gears with 25in tires, and it cruises along on the highway easily at 70mph at 2400 rpm.  I actually thought it would turn a lower rpm, but its not.  I can't see running a short gear if you are doing road racing.  You know your tire diameters and rear gears well enough to decide what kind of speeds you will be running.  Choose a converter to match your rev range.  There used to be a paddle shifter for the steering wheel option.  Sounds cool, but I didn't really hear that it worked all that well.  I haven't heard anything bad about SST.  It has to be WAY BETTER than Keisler's BS that I had to put up with.  Good luck.  Im not too far away from you if you ever want to come and take a look. 
"Don't brake until you see God!"

Offline Mopar Mitch

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Re: SILVER SPORT/KEISLER 4-SPEED AUTOMATIC 4L60
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2016 - 01:08:07 PM »
JORDAN - T/Anks for the info.  Most of my hwy cruising has either tall rear tires BFG T/A 275-60-15 at 28.0" dia (nice hwy ride!); or else the current competition HSAX/HPDE tires BFG G-Force 255-50-16 (f/r) at 26.0" dia....    when I'm doing the HSAX/HPDE, most of the rpms are in 2nd gear at ~3500-5800 (can go up to 6-6500 if I want, but then out of the power range), and hitting 3rd gear ~3700-4500.... with my current 3.23.

IF you can, try to make it to Blackhawk Farms Raceway (just N/NW of Rockford, IL) this SAT for a FREE SCHOOL (HSAX/HPDE/W2W).... www.mcscc.org or www.nsscc.org... events starts 9:00 am (gates close by 10:00 am)... or else wknd of July 2-3-4 (4th being the HSAX/HPDE).  My car is apart, so it won't be there, but I'll be there both wknds.
Autocross/road racers go in deeper... and come out harder!

See  MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, AUGUST 2006 ISSUE for featured article and details on my autocross T/A.

Offline quagmire

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Re: SILVER SPORT/KEISLER 4-SPEED AUTOMATIC 4L60
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2016 - 09:31:45 AM »
I have a 4L60E behind a 408 SB stroker with 3.91's and 275/60/15 tires.  It seems to be a good overall match.  Acceleration out of the hole is great, and it has enough spread in the gears to keep it from hunting.  Since I have a 3500 stall converter, lockup feels like an additional gear.  I'm still getting used to it cruising so much lower and quieter.  I do think this trans shifts far crisper than the built 904 it replaced, and despite having a similar stall converter it feels "tighter."  It still stalls out as it should with WOT, but doesn't feel like a boat in water accelerating during lower throttle.

Offline jordan

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Re: SILVER SPORT/KEISLER 4-SPEED AUTOMATIC 4L60
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2016 - 12:39:54 AM »
I can't make it this weekend related to employment obligations.  I did go to the Madison SCCA (affiliated with the midwestern council) meeting last month to check out the local autocross events and what it takes to get my cuda to some events.  While listening, I really started thinking I would like to do a HPDE, but just not sure I should be doing it in my cuda.  So I am on the earliest thoughts of getting a race car in the future. I am still planning on doing some driving schools this summer at least to learn how to drive my car to its potential.  No sense having it if Im not going to drive it like I built it for. 
"Don't brake until you see God!"

Offline Mopar Mitch

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Re: SILVER SPORT/KEISLER 4-SPEED AUTOMATIC 4L60
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2016 - 11:52:31 AM »
Quagmire, Jordon -  T/Anks for your replies.... actually, we could probably meet someday, at a race (BHF?), or else at the Belvidere, IL CMC Mopar show in mid-July (17th or 24???).
Autocross/road racers go in deeper... and come out harder!

See  MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, AUGUST 2006 ISSUE for featured article and details on my autocross T/A.

Offline jordan

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Re: SILVER SPORT/KEISLER 4-SPEED AUTOMATIC 4L60
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2016 - 01:27:44 PM »
Mitch,  I met you once at Belvidere a few years ago.  Bigs was there too.  I didn't have my car there since it was still apart, so it makes it harder to identify me to my car.  I may try to check out the Memorial day event at Blackhawk just to see what it is about.  I probably wont take my car.  Just a scouting trip.  I usually make it to Belvidere.  I have it on the schedule to take my cuda there this year.  Let us know when you get that trans in your car. 
"Don't brake until you see God!"