Inexpensive-budget EFI option that rocks!!!!!!!

Author Topic: Inexpensive-budget EFI option that rocks!!!!!!!  (Read 36279 times)

Offline zstalker

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 32
Re: Inexpensive-budget EFI option that rocks!!!!!!!
« Reply #60 on: January 18, 2005 - 06:07:22 PM »
will this ford EFI system suppor a supercharger (or turbo)?  I'm just wondering, in the 5.0 world, do they have to upgrade their computer or go to an entirely new system if they're going for very much power or airflow?  my plan is to rig this setup to a 440, and down the road save up for a twin-turbo setup.  is this computer capable of that load?
Ah, what's that? Worm's wart! mmm! ...and frog's breath.




Offline Grancoupe

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 830
Re: Inexpensive-budget EFI option that rocks!!!!!!!
« Reply #61 on: January 18, 2005 - 08:59:05 PM »
Thanx for the reply on the fuel pump issue. From the looks of the fuel line you have installed its alot bigger than a stock 3/8 line. I'm currently running all AN and braid. It cost a bit but it was worth the effort. I set it up with #10 from the tank to the pump, then #8 all the way up to the regulator, then #6 split to the fuel bowls. My worry was will the pump be able to keep up the pressure with that large of a line but the photos seem to confirm the line size issue. I think I'm going to start looking at some of the Mustang postings for udgrade techniques and tricks. Start getting a background on the system before I get started on this conversion. Please don't get the impression that I don't want to ask you any questions but I don't want to hit you with questions that are common knowledge. The fuel pump was in fact something that Mustang guys would know about and would have probably found in the postings on their sites. Thank you for the info you have posted, you have created alot of incentive in my getting this project to work. :thumbs:

Offline ONEBADMK8

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • Lincoln Performance
Re: Inexpensive-budget EFI option that rocks!!!!!!!
« Reply #62 on: January 23, 2005 - 06:29:24 PM »
Lookin' good Dave! (As usual!)  LOL!  Whats up Man?

1995 LMS SVT R Model Mark VIII "The TerminVIIIor"
Worlds Quickest and Fastest NA Mark VIII
13.44 @102.993 with a 1.81 60 ft.
    0-to-60 in 4.9 seconds.
Click here for the MM&FF LMS Coverage.
1993 Supercharged Tasca SuperMark 12.80 @105.21.
1986 Steel Blue Mercury Capri 5.0 Currently daily driver.

Lincoln Mark VIII Performance

Lincoln VS Cadillac Forums

Offline miketyler

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2561
    • www.miketyler.net
Re: Inexpensive-budget EFI option that rocks!!!!!!!
« Reply #63 on: January 26, 2005 - 08:35:15 AM »
Dave - one other question; if the setup uses a retrofitted Ford distributor with internal Ford guts, then the engine will use the Ford electronic ignition components? Assume they are part of the firewall mounted components that must be removed? 
72' Cuda restomod
70 Mustang Mach 1
07' Toyota Tacoma Prerunner Dbl cab in Speedway Blue!
01' Honda 1100 Shadow Sabre
96' Seadoo Challenger

Offline CruisingRam

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Inexpensive-budget EFI option that rocks!!!!!!!
« Reply #64 on: March 07, 2005 - 10:01:38 PM »
I want to run an EFI on a Six pack- which brain box would you guys suggest?

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36620
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re: Inexpensive-budget EFI option that rocks!!!!!!!
« Reply #65 on: March 08, 2005 - 01:42:28 AM »
Mega squirt should work well , did you see the MCG with the multiport sequential FEI 6 pack with the custom throttle bodies ?

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline EFI-Cuda

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 119
  • 1974 Cuda 408
Re: Inexpensive-budget EFI option that rocks!!!!!!!
« Reply #66 on: March 09, 2005 - 02:46:34 PM »
The problem with running Ford EFI with a 6-pack looking throttle body set-up is that the Ford system requires a mass-air sensor that has to be mounted before the throttle body.    In this case, the mass-air sensor would have to be mounted before the 6-pack throttle body set-up.    This arrangement presents multiple issues for the Ford EFI to function properly.    I’m sure that it could be adapted to function, but would it be worth the effort?   I would investigate other programmable aftermarket computer systems that do not use a mass-air sensor if I was considering the 6-pack style throttle body set-up.   

One of the strongest reasons for considering the Ford EFI conversion is because it is economical.   Obtaining used components like the Ford throttle body, throttle position sensor and the mass-air sensor assist in keeping EFI conversion costs down.   The down side is that your engine no longer has the stock appearance of the factory carb-style air cleaner.   

I do realize that there is a lot of interest among Mopar owners in retaining the factory appearance of the engine bay.    There is a way to run Ford EFI and still retain the factory look by not eliminating the carb-style factory air cleaner.    I have seen a 4-bbl style throttle body that is compatible with the Ford throttle position sensor and idle control unit.  This type of throttle body replaces the carb and should allow the use of the Mopar factory throttle cable and the transmission kick-down assembly.   Above the 4-bbl style throttle body mounts an 83mm GM mass-air sensor that is thin enough to mount inside the factory Mopar air cleaner assembly.   A signal converter allows the Ford computer to read the signals generated from the GM mass-air sensor and that should be it.   I have not done this yet, but I understand that this can be done.   This is a possibility for guys that want to use Ford EFI and still want to retain the factory Mopar air cleaner assembly.   This way the EFI conversion won’t appear so Ford-looking.   

So the bottom line is that there is an option for 4 bbl guys that want to use Ford EFI and retain a factory look, but 6-pack guys might want to consider a computer system that does not use a mass-air sensor.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2005 - 02:51:06 PM by 1974Cuda360 »
Cuda 408, Ford EFI, Magnum heads, Vortech V-2 Si-Trim, A-518 transmission and 3.23 gears.

Offline 4spdChally

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 52
Re: Inexpensive-budget EFI option that rocks!!!!!!!
« Reply #67 on: April 01, 2005 - 08:05:51 PM »
This is a very informative thread.

I am really interested in trying this setup. You seem to know quite a bit about Ford 5.0L's and thought you could help me out. Right now I have a wrecked 60,000 mile 1988 T-Bird with a non mass air 5.0L in it. I bought it years ago to do a engine swap but, that never happened. So after reading this I am wondering if the fuel injectors, throttle body, and distributor would work out of this car. I also have a new mass air sensor and housing out of a 1995 4.6L Cougar that looks just like the earlier ones and don't know if that would work. That way I would only need to find a computer and harness out of a mass air Mustang and buy a new intake manifold and Ford throttly body adaptor(BTW I can't seem to find that adaptor in any Mustang mags). I also see they are selling mass air conversion harnesses on Ebay that are supposed to convert standard 5.0L harnesses also. I would still imagine you need a mass air computer though.

Any idea if some or all of this stuff would work on a stock 1995 360 Magnum out of a Ram going in my Challenger now? This setup would be nice as the engine was in a truck that caught on fire and the factory fuel injection and distributor did not survive anyway. I would like to try your idea and get it running before commiting to new injectors etc. when I have parts laying around for free.

Thanks for any info you have.

EDIT:  After doing some research I see that the stock non HO injectors are only 14lb and the throttle body is 50mm. Not real good for performance and will probably cause the engine to run lean. Oh well it was a thought anyway. Guess I will start looking for the entire setup out of a Mustang.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2005 - 12:57:47 AM by 72redChally »

Offline EFI-Cuda

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 119
  • 1974 Cuda 408
Re: Inexpensive-budget EFI option that rocks!!!!!!!
« Reply #68 on: April 03, 2005 - 01:21:10 PM »
72redChally, you asked a lot of specific questions in your last post.   You can feel free to contact me directly by email for responses to your more specific questions.   On this message board, I try to post responses to questions that are a bit more general.   
The components that you need for this EFI swap are divided into three main categories:   
(1) Electronics      (2) Fuel System      (3) Air Intake.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

1.)  Electronics
You need the following:

- 1989 to 1993 Ford 5.0L Mustang Computer 
These years were mass-air computer equiped. 

- The computer wiring harness for that vehicle.   
The wiring harness has 3 parts  -  the main harness (that connects to the computer), the injector harness (that sits on top of the engine's intake manifold) and the O2 Sensor harness (that connects under the car to the O2 sensors.)   All three parts of the harness clip together.

- A hybird distributor
This is a 1989 to 1993 Ford 5.0L Mustang distributor that has been machined to fit in a Mopar engine block.
I will probably end up selling them in the future because I get a lot of requests for this piece of the EFI conversion.

- All the Ford engine sensors
O2 sensors, TPI sensor (on the throttle-body), coolant temp sensor (in the coolant tube on the manifold), Mass air sensor, barametric pressure sensor (on the fire wall), Air temp sensor (in the intake manifold)  and anything else that the computer wiring harness connects to on the firewall.



_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

2.) Fuel System
You need the following:

- Injectors
You may want to use Mustang 19lb injectors or you might want to get bigger sized injectors.   This depends on the horsepower level of your engine.

- Fuel Pump
You don't need the Mustang's in-tank pump.   It was barely big enough for the 225 HP Mustang after the engine was modified.   Get an externally mounted aftermarket EFI pump that is big enough to satisfy the fuel requirements for your engine's horsepower level.

- Fuel Pressure Regulator and a return fuel line.
Carb vehicles have a fuel inlet line.   Many EFI systems have an inlet and a return line back to the tank.   the Fuel pressure regulator regulates/restricts the flow of fuel back to the gas tank which builds up the fuel pressure in the fuel rails for the injectors. (38 -44 psi)

- Fuel rails
Summitt sells them for about $26 bucks each.   (They need to be machined for the injectors.)



_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

3.) Air Intake
You need the following:

- Intake manifold.
A single plane 4bbl style intake that has been machined for fuel injectors.

- A Throttle Elbow
This elbow connects the Ford throttlebody to the 4bbl intake manifold.

- Throttlebody and mass air sensor
You can use stock Mustang parts, but remember that the 5.0 Mustang engine only made 225 HP.   If your engine makes significantly more HP, you might want to find an aftermarket mass air sensor and throttlebody that is big enough to allow all the air flow that your engine needs.   You can always use the stock Mustang components to get the engine running and upgrade later.

- Throttle cable and Transmission Kick-down cable (for automatic trans owners)
Lokar sells these cables.   The are adjustable and work extremely well.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Note:   The fuel injector size needs to be matched to the mass air sensor's calibration.   For example, say that your engine's HP level requires you to get 30lb fuel injectors.   Make sure that the mass air sensor is calibrated for these injectors.   C&L Performance makes several different sizes of  mass air sensors for the Mustang.   These mass air sensors use exchangable flow tubes to calibrate for the correct injector size.   With a C&L Performance mass air sensor, you can upgrade injector sizes and cost effectively re-calibrate your mass air sensor to match.



This post is a pretty good overview of what will be needed for the Mopar/Ford EFI conversion.   This post is not intended to be a complete list of every part required.   This basic information should be helpful as a general guide for folks that might be interested in considering this cost effective fuel injection option.   There are many options for Mopar owners that want to consider fuel injection.    The strengths of this EFI swap are:   
1.) Lower costs than most other aftermarket EFI systems,   and    2.) The computer system doesn't require programming from a laptop or other such device.   Connect it properly, and the computer makes the adjustments that it needs to make for the engine to function optimally.   Of course, this system was designed by Ford for a sports car that was intended for street use.    More radical engine combinations that are intended for race applications might benefit from computer tweeking.   

« Last Edit: April 03, 2005 - 03:48:09 PM by 1974Cuda360 »
Cuda 408, Ford EFI, Magnum heads, Vortech V-2 Si-Trim, A-518 transmission and 3.23 gears.

Offline jedrattle

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Inexpensive-budget EFI option that rocks!!!!!!!
« Reply #69 on: July 03, 2005 - 10:07:57 AM »
 I love this thread!! I have 3 vehicles that run 360's. I want efi on all of them. I have two complete magnum 360's-wiring and computers ( out of trucks).  One is a `93 and the other is a `95. Is it possible to use the intake,fuel rails, injectors, etc ( the engine stuff ) and make the ford stuff (computer, etc) work. I realize the throttle body and a few sensors would probably have to be changed.  What about the distrubutor mods?

 I have a `73 powerwagon that the `93  motor is going into complete with the 518. This motor is getting a low stall convertor and roller rockers. Otherwise it wil be stock. I need to get this running ASAP. The stock magmun wiring looks like a complete nightmare. The part that sucks is that I put it a Painless wiring harness about 4 years ago. I don't want to lose that.

 The`95 motor will go in a `68 dart but not until late next year or a soon as the powerwagon is finished.


 Thanks for your time and troubles!



 P.S. I realize this is a Cuda board but cheap efi for mopars is not easy to come by. Besides we are all Mopar people here!! :beer:
« Last Edit: July 03, 2005 - 10:15:16 AM by jedrattle »

Offline 4Cruizn

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 18521
  • HEMI FISH
Re: Inexpensive-budget EFI option that rocks!!!!!!!
« Reply #70 on: July 03, 2005 - 10:12:23 AM »
Welcome to cc.com jedrattle . . . great place here!!  Got any pics of your rides??  You should start a new thread and introduce yourself and show us some pics of what ya got!!  We love them pics!!  Welcome again!!   :wave: 

Offline jedrattle

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Inexpensive-budget EFI option that rocks!!!!!!!
« Reply #71 on: July 03, 2005 - 10:43:54 AM »
 Thanks! I will do that. I only have a few pics of my junk but, I have a lot of junk!! :laughing:  The `68 dart isn't home ......momma doesn't know...yet :stomp:!  Plug your ears!!  :laughing:  I don't own a cuda or a challenger but, I am a Mopar man. I came home from the hospital in a `68 gts dart. Wonder why I like Mopars?  We had an AAR cuda sublime with an auto that my worthless pos stepfather wrecked three times and then cut up ( that was 20 years ago) :cry: :cry:. 
« Last Edit: July 03, 2005 - 12:49:55 PM by jedrattle »