Author Topic: 440 Cranks  (Read 1103 times)

Offline 71_340Challenger

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 165
440 Cranks
« on: March 14, 2006 - 09:27:10 AM »
You guys are always full of knowledge and opinions and have helped me in the past. I have a externally balanced 440 that I got out of a 76 Chrylser New Yorker that I am currently rebuilding. The combo I am working on should net 450-500 hp and torque at the flywheel. This will be a street/strip 71 Challenger. My question is crankshafts. The stock crankshaft is in great condition and didn't need to be turned, but it is an externally balanced cast crank with about 70,000 miles. I have heard and read that as you approach 500 hp, you should consider going to a forged crank and internally balanced. I was just curious what others thought about when to consider going to forged cranks as well as internally vs. externally balanced. I am mainly concerned about having a reliable motor at this point. Thanks for the help in advance.  :dunno: feedback:
1971 Dodge Challenger                
2009 Dodge Challenger R/T, 6 speed manual
2009 Dodge Charger R/T w/ Road & Track Package
1995 Ford F-150




Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36620
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re: 440 Cranks
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2006 - 11:15:46 AM »
in most applications the cast crank will be plenty strong enough , but Steel is nicer as far as balancing & not having to use balanced converters &  or flywheels
 your call if you want to spend the extra $$

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline Morris'_Mopars

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1173
Re: 440 Cranks
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2006 - 02:32:13 PM »
If you are putting all those ponies to use then I personaly would use a steel crank. I have seen a cast crank 440 scream up to 7500 rpm before shifting (a dumba** was driving) and it stayed together. But say you want to change the stall speed later then you have to get the new one balanced for a cast when if the crank is steel you can put it right in..
Morris' Mopars LLC
Raymond, Illinois
Mopar performance at affordable prices.

Offline Follicly Challenged

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 153
Re: 440 Cranks
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2006 - 06:54:44 PM »
If you wish to get around then "external balance" parts interchangeability issues as mentioned; convertor swaps later, just add a 120 gram weight to the flexplate prior to balancing, then use the "0" , neutral balance, steel crank type convertors.
Cast cranks are fine at the 500 hp level, however it's not really the material, so much as the RPM the engine will see that kills things.
To explain; it's the torsional stress "end to end" that eventually kills the cast clunk-sticks. By being "externally" balanced, what you're really saying is we're adding a weight to each end of the crank, outside of the motor, on the balancer and Torque convertor, to make up for "too light" of counterweights internally on the crank, given the cast materials less dense weight as opposed to the forged.
These same weights, at certain points in the rpm band, tend to set up a damaging frequency "end to end", as the crank "windes" and "un-windes" while rotating in the motor.

This is why It's always preferable to have the weight "as close to opposite" of what it's countering, as in the Forged cranks.

Long story short. 1 st damaging harmonics(the minor), on a ~2400 gram 440 bobweight occur @ ~32-3400 rpm

The 2 nd, and worst phasing(the major), will occur ~ 67-6800 rpm.

Build to 500 with the cast, get it balanced, stay below 6800 rpm, no worries.

JUST MY OPINION, no flames wanted, use whatever you like, forged or cast.

Offline 71_340Challenger

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 165
Re: 440 Cranks
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2006 - 10:19:51 AM »
Thanks all for the insignts. I had pretty much come to the same set of conclusions, but wanted to see what others thought and what their experiences have been. I am trying to do this rebuild somewhat on a budget and I hate to spend $500-$1000 if it is not necessary. Thank again. I hope to have this work in progress back on the road by summer!  :working: working towards  :burnout:
1971 Dodge Challenger                
2009 Dodge Challenger R/T, 6 speed manual
2009 Dodge Charger R/T w/ Road & Track Package
1995 Ford F-150

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36620
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re: 440 Cranks
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2006 - 09:49:19 PM »
440 source has a good steel crank for a decent price if you decide to go that route

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline 71_340Challenger

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 165
Re: 440 Cranks
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2006 - 10:08:48 AM »
440source is where I was going to get a new crank if I decided to go that route. There were places on ebay that were cheaper, but you never know what you are going to get and what the quality is. Ebay is good for some things, but I am not going to buy a crank from Joe-schmo. Thanks for all the help. I am hoping to get my Challenger back on the road by summer.  :working:
1971 Dodge Challenger                
2009 Dodge Challenger R/T, 6 speed manual
2009 Dodge Charger R/T w/ Road & Track Package
1995 Ford F-150

Offline Follicly Challenged

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 153
Re: 440 Cranks
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2006 - 11:15:39 PM »
Good used Forged Steel cranks can be had relatively cheap, or so I thought, just no demand for them anymore.

 Went digging in the "junk" pile today and came out with 2 good "std/std" Forged units that are serviceable at "std" with a polish. Many more .010/.010 and others, all mag'd good with no cracks.

These things still worth anything ?

Maybe I should put 'em in the for sale section with matching Dampners ?

Offline 71_340Challenger

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 165
Re: 440 Cranks
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2006 - 12:21:30 PM »
If you are wanting to get rid of a std/std one, I might be interested. How much would you want? I know shipping will be quite a bit though. If nothing else, I bet you could put them on ebay and make a few extra bucks.  :ebay: I noticed quite a few on there.

Thanks all for the help and input. :working:
Chad
1971 Dodge Challenger                
2009 Dodge Challenger R/T, 6 speed manual
2009 Dodge Charger R/T w/ Road & Track Package
1995 Ford F-150