Author Topic: ECS, Emissions, inspections, etc  (Read 3762 times)

Offline duodec

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ECS, Emissions, inspections, etc
« on: September 24, 2006 - 11:26:14 PM »
My 1971 came with the California ECS package.  Part of that (the 4-corner vented gas tank) I like, but the temp controlled distributor advance bleedoff pretty much has no purpose in life.

Except... are there any states that still perform physical inspections of cars this old and autofail you if any piece of emissions gear is missing or disconnected?  My car had a temp sensor in the firewall that read cowl air temperature, and a bleed-off solenoid for distributor advance vacuum.  The solenoid hadn't worked since I got the car but everything was present.  It used to pass smog (in Nevada) for 1979 standards even without it, but there was no physical/visual inspection requirement at the time (last updated in 1985 on that car).

So I've got an extra hole in the firewall; I can fill it, or put the sensor in it (is there a cover for that hole?  Or was it not punched/cut out in non-ECS cars?) and fake the wiring, or even leave the nonfunctional solenoid in place (at least while using the stock 318 engine).  Since I'm not going for any kind of concourse correct restoration, are there any real reasons, in any state, for actually retaining and repairing these parts?  Actually excluding California (don't they have a 25 year window on this stuff now?) since I'll never be moving there.




Offline Jacksboys

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Re: ECS, Emissions, inspections, etc
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2006 - 12:35:33 AM »
Excluding California, I do not believe that any state would require an emmisions test on that old of a car.  I know for sure that Georgia only cares about the last 25 years.
1971 Dodge Challenger:  360/904/3.23
   
Success is the maximum utilization of the ability that you have. - Zig Ziglar

Offline Robb

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Re: ECS, Emissions, inspections, etc
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2006 - 01:21:38 PM »
Maricopa County (PHX metro, 5th largest metro in US BTW....)   and Tucson AZ both require emissions tests in PHX its for vehicles 1967 and newer.

my Challenger gets the sniffer every year before I can get my plates renewed.   
(no plates on the 68, it just sits in the garage looking pretty)

70 Challenger SE  (440 SIX PACK / Keisler 5 speed, R/T SE replication)       68 Sport Satellite Convertible 383 Super Commando / 727  Survivor

2002 Trans AM WS6 convertible:  DD
1999 4Runner 4x4:  lifted-locked-armored  expedition vehicle
1990 Jeep XJ 4x4:  Front Dana 60, GM-14bolt rear, 3 link, 4link, 5.38 detroits, beadlocked 40's, stretched to 110" wb  Rock Crawler

Offline Jacksboys

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Re: ECS, Emissions, inspections, etc
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2006 - 01:59:08 PM »
Sorry to hear about that Robb. I stand corrected. 

Are there any other areas that are doing this?
1971 Dodge Challenger:  360/904/3.23
   
Success is the maximum utilization of the ability that you have. - Zig Ziglar

Offline duodec

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Re: ECS, Emissions, inspections, etc
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2006 - 09:46:51 PM »
Robb,
     do they do an inspection too?  Or just the sniffer? 

     I'm really not concerned about tailpipe emissions; that can be dealt with.  Its the bad old day inspections where they made sure you actually had all the smog garbage that was put on the car.  Would they know that the fender tag code on a '71 meant there was supposed to be a temp sensor in the cowl and a bleed-off solenoid on the distributor?  Dunno, but if they did and they weren't there, I know California used to fail the car (back in the '80s when i was reading the horror stories in the then available car rags).

Rich

Offline Robb

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Re: ECS, Emissions, inspections, etc
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2006 - 03:35:04 AM »
inspection:

it depends on the car, motor, and how much you talk. :)

First off, the emissions requirements are on a sliding scale.   My 70 Challenger is not held to as high a standard as a 98 Lexus.


The rule is something like, its not necessarily the age of the car, its the motor inside that you are being held accountable for:

They have never opened my hood on my cars and since I failed a few emissions tests after swapping carbs, motors and other tweakings etc,  I have gone through 10 or so emissions / inspections with the challenger.   Never asked me any questions about it.  They would have to crawl under, look at and decode the numbers on my 440 block to realize its not a 70 motor, since mine is a stock configuaration/appearance.   In addition my car has the California Emissions package for 1970, but the only thing not operating on mine is the carb vapor line going to the valve cover breather.  They have never looked though.

HOWEVER !
I do know a guy at work that has a '75 or so Jeep Wagoneer, that he put a crate Chevy 350 in last year.  In 75, that vehicle didnt have any significant smog equipment or any catalytic converters.    When he went to get Emissions tested, they dinged him for the engine swap and were holding him accountable for the year of the motor and what the restricitions would be, and so today his Wagoneer still isnt road legal because he hasnt put in the Smog equipment to go with it. 

ALso my dad has a 93 Jeep XJ that is all Rock-Crawlered out, and he did talk about having to go put a new muffler on it (torn off by Rocks) before inspection, but he is in Tucson, and their visual inspection might be a bit more rigorous. No muffler is a little more obvious though, and since they have to hook up the sniffer to the exhaust your dont have to inspect real hard for that.  (also have noise level laws here).  His Jeep inline-6 motor puts out a stink when you drive behind it, yet he still passes the sniffer.

I think its more high profile when the motor was not an available option in that car model year that it becomes an issue (rather than a straight forward replacement motor )

It goes something like this:

If you put a 66 Olds 425 into a 82 Cutlass, the emissions requiriements are that of an 82 Cutlass

If you put a 98 Ford V6(? whatever ) into a 82 Cutlass, the emissions requiremnts are that of a 98 Ford 


Here if you have a 66 or older car they dont require smog testing or yearly inspection so it would be easier to sneak a modern motor into a car like that and not have to sweat all the problems the guy with the wagoneer is going through.

I am not the AZ DEQ, so I may be slightly wrong, but generally thats the deal here as I last understood it.

70 Challenger SE  (440 SIX PACK / Keisler 5 speed, R/T SE replication)       68 Sport Satellite Convertible 383 Super Commando / 727  Survivor

2002 Trans AM WS6 convertible:  DD
1999 4Runner 4x4:  lifted-locked-armored  expedition vehicle
1990 Jeep XJ 4x4:  Front Dana 60, GM-14bolt rear, 3 link, 4link, 5.38 detroits, beadlocked 40's, stretched to 110" wb  Rock Crawler

Offline duodec

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Re: ECS, Emissions, inspections, etc
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2006 - 10:15:07 PM »
I remember reading in the car rags in the '80s that california was going to switch to 'year of engine' instead of 'year of car', but also that they might switch to 'whichever is newer'.  I never found out which way they went.  I guess other states followed them though; too bad.  I don't intend to stay in Illinois but obviously I need to take my someday destination state into account when making plans.

Nevada had a per-year set of requirements, so as you described a '71 like mine had lower standards to meet than later years (and as I mentioned my car used to pass '79 standards back then) but those requirements were invariant for that year; a '71 car would always have to meet the same standards, even 10 or 20 years later (that may have changed since the 1980s).

So if you buy a crate 'new hemi' and want to run a carb on it, Arizona might make you meet 2005-2006 specs... I wonder if that is even possible with a carb.

Thanks a lot for responding.  My plans are still pretty fixed on a small block, originally a 340 but perhaps now a stroked 360; a new hemi is a pipe dream barring a big infusion of cash that I don't see coming, and a big block is not compatible with the way i want the car to be.  Making it appear fairly stock may be important depending on how intrusive the  state you live in wants to be.  But maybe the california vacuum retard garbage can be eliminated.

 More research once we decide where we want to move to.  Sigh...

Offline asm74

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Re: ECS, Emissions, inspections, etc
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2006 - 01:10:37 AM »
  :stirpot:  I own a 67 Camaro SS and a 73 Challenger, both gas hogs, and both registered, insured and stickered for highway use.  Not once have I had to have the cars inspected or smogged.  Smog requirements apply ONLY to CARS that were assembled  before 1975.  There's always chatter of changing the rules, but in my 4 years living here so far, they haven't.  My Camaro is also modded to all hell, its a 350 stroked to 383 with full length headers blah blah blah  I just filed a Planned Non-Operation registration for my Challenger while I work on it, so I dont have to pay registration fees until it's done. Sweet.
The ONLY time I was ever pulled over in my Camaro, the cop just wanted to know where I bought the wheels.  My mechanic, a mopar specialist who works exclusively on pre 75 classic cars and I gab about this stuff all the time.  The only thing he's really concerned about is having enough room for all of his clients!

Quick plug:  Anyone in Nor-Cal who needs quality work at a reasonable price, by a hardcore hot rodder, look up "Classics By Steve" in Oakland. 

73 Challenger

Offline chevyconvert

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Re: ECS, Emissions, inspections, etc
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2006 - 10:13:51 PM »
Welcome asm74...coincidentally I have a '67 SS/RS and a Challenger here in Walnut creek.

I'll keep Steve's in mind :cheers:
Eric
'70 Hemi Orange RT/SE 440 Six Pack Pistol-Grip 4 speed
Bay Area California

sleepychallenger

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Re: ECS, Emissions, inspections, etc
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2006 - 10:20:03 PM »
Colorado laws for Colorado Springs and Denver (other cities too but some not) state that if the car is 1959 or older then no emissions test is needed. If it is 25 years old then you only need one in the lifetime that you own the car only if you get the collectors 5 year plates if you dont get thoes then every year you have to get an emissions test

Offline Grancoupe

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Re: ECS, Emissions, inspections, etc
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2006 - 08:29:03 AM »
NY is a safety only. However if the mechanic is looking to break your chops he/she can do a visual for emissions.