Tire Help (Again) RWL, 28" 275-315s

[Carlwalski]

I've been looking around and doing countless Google searches, making calls, catalog searching and tires are giving me grey hair! I purchased some 345/55R15 BFG Drag DOT Radials. Upon seeing them in person they're a great tire for racing but with 3-4mm (1/18" - 3/16") in new condition for a street car, a couple of burnouts and it would almost be time for a new one. The minimal tread depth obviously will effect tire life but also with these tires getting caught on wet roads is asking for trouble. I want this car to be an all round Good street performer. So, I've decided to look for a smaller width, radial based full tread tire. I jumped the gun with these radial drag tires, my fault, I'll have to sell them, guess I got a head of myself.......

I'll be running XVs Level 2 rear suspension. 3-link, coil overs etc so leaf spring rub is no concern. I have 14" section width (350mm) to work with. Ideally, a 13" section width tire is the aim to give me ample room for bounce, passengers and handle/cornering bulge. Any ideas on a nice 295-315 tire? Thing is I'd like raised white letters, 28" high and all while fitting a 15" rim. LMAO! Tall order, I know. At this stage I'm seriously considering going 275/60R15 BFGoodrich's. Traction in Lucy is top notch. She only has 400hp (or there abouts) and bites hard with 3.91s. Another tire I'm seriously looking at is the Mickey Thompson Sportsman S/R tires in the size 28x12x15" (305s). Great traction and driving tire but with no raised white writing it's putting me off. I really want to run cop rims but without the RWL it just looks plain and poos in my opinion. I could write on it with tyre paint but mickey thompsons sticking out would just look non factory straight away, not my cup of tea.

As you'll see from the photo below, I was quite shocked that the 345s put up against the 275s don't seem that much bigger. Bigger? Yes. Way bigger? Far from it. With a 10" rim the 345s aren't getting a hell of a lot of that tread to the ground, I'm thinking a 10" with 305 or a 275 with an 8" will get all of it's tire to the ground. Another thing I found while doing searches is guys running BFG Radial T/As running mid to low 10s and 11s with 500+rwhp. I know it's not all tires, in fact it's bugger all tire but more the suspension. I'd like BFG 295s but the height is putting me off (26.7") vs the 28" 275/60. They do make a 295/50R16 at 27.6" but with BFG who knows how long that will be available.

Any help or input is appreciated. Sorry for the long post, but this topic has been bugging me for the last several days and I can't explain it in two lines properly. I feel better even now for just letting it out lol. As you can see from the photo shop photos below, the raised white letters just set the car off. They give it that classic factory muscle car look. Rallyes look "OK" without them but the cop rims just look plain and, "ugh". lol


Cheers,
Carl

[cowboy]

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From the pics., I like the Rally / raised white writing, the best....

BFGodrich makes a 295 / 65 - 15, but I think it's almost 30" high...

Or try Hoosier, no white lettering thou..

19215 29x15.50R-16LT 11-13"(12")   29.0"  15.2"  12.1"  1280  25  89H  40  $171.00 
19250 29x18.50R-15LT 13-16"(14")   29.0"  17.8"  14.6"  1435  25  93H  47  $300.00 


https://www.hoosiertire.com/PrSPlist.pdf

[Carlwalski]

After doing some more research I totally overlooked the speed ratings. I've had Lucy up to 200kph (or just over) on BFGoodrich S rated tires (112mph/180kph). It's not something I'd do everyday, far from it, but if I do want to open up the 540 on a lone back road I'd like to do it knowing I'm not going to blow out. So, taking that into consideration I'm going to have to pass on the BFGoodrichs. From there website the best they do is a 295/50R16 which is 27.6" OD.

At present it's either the Mickey Thompson Sportsman S/R radials in the size of 28x12x15" which are speed rated H (210kph/130mph) or something like the Nitto NT 450 tires which are a 17" rim. I don't mind going a little larger in the rear to accommodate good tires. Stockton (who I hate) can make cop rims up to 17x10" dimensions. The Nittos are 275/50-17 with an overall diameter of 27.90 and have a V rating (240kph/149mph) which sounds really good......decisions, decisions......

[Carlwalski]

What is a good sidewall width? How small should we go with our cars and with something like a 660hp engine? I remember Stroker saying he tried a 35 sidewall tire and hated it, heaps of hop. Where should I "draw" the line when looking? At this stage I'm thinking 45 minimum. 50 or 60 would be ideal. Also, should I totally discount bias ply and stick to radials? This car will be 100% street driven. If I do take it down the track the and the tires don't perform, no biggy, it's a street car.

[Carlwalski]

Anyone?

Basically, I'm looking for a RWL letter tire 275 to 315 in size rated for high speeds (H Minimum). Don't mind the brand as long as it's good. I would go to 16 or 17 to accommodate these tires, not preferred but doable to get traction and a good drivers tire under there.

[HP2]

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BFGoodrich makes a 295 / 65 - 15, but I think it's almost 30" high...

This brings him back to his concern about tread depth as that tire is a drag radial, hence shallow tread depth.

There are a number of options out there in those sizes in good performance tires, it is just that they will not have the raised white letters. The reason being that whitewalls and white letter tires are heavier. There is an additional side wall layer applied that has the white letters that black walls do not have. There are a lot of physics tied to this type of unsprung weight and the detriminent it can be to performance in those applications where every fraction of a second counts. For your average street driver, however, doubtful you'll notice the difference, however, the vast majority of consumers of those tires are of a bunch that do care and can tell the difference, so no white letters are offered on those tires.

For RWL tires, there are these options, BFG T/A of course, Dunlop GT, Cooper Cobra, Goodyear Eagle GT2,  Firestone Firehawk, Dean Stinger, Grand Prix Grand Am, Hankook Venture, Pirelli Scorpion, Big O Bigfoot. I'm sure there are others out there I've overlooked. THE BFG design is probably the oldest of the bunch, next to Grand Ams.

Speed ratings are calculated using the maximum specified load called out by the manufacturer on a run for 10 minutes with a machine that maximizes the load against a drum. If no defects are found, the tire is speced for that speed rating. So, if your car is lighter than the maximum load ratings per tire or you spend less than 10 minutes at that speed, chances are your going to be fine. Since most of us will never fully utilize an S speed rating much less a V or Z, I'd say your safe. Of course that is assuming specified rim widths running at specified inflation, etc, so on and so forth.

[Carlwalski]

Thanks Tony.

I must point out I don't speed around everywhere but I'd be lying through my teeth if I said I haven't and won't do it again. If I'm on a lone back road and do a 0-100kph test and want to push further I don't want to have to quite because my tires may fail. That's my point.

At this stage I think I may have a solution. Buy the Mickey Thompson Sportsman S/R 305s for traction etc and high speeds, basically, the "go" tires. I'll also get some 275/60 BFGoodrichs for everyday driving and photo shoots etc. I'll have them both mounted so it's just a 20 minute swap of tires to change. If I'm going away up north or for a nice blat I'll put the Mickey Thompson's on.

Question, is it safe to run BFGoodrich Radial T/As up front (235 or 245/60) with Mickey Thompson's on the rear? I just don't want to have Mickeys up front and the rear and to get that cool RWL look have to change all the tires. I in my own opinion can't see any harm, surely it won't make any difference what so ever? Thanks again Tony, I'll check out this brands. I won't mind a 275 as long as it's a good tire. I know you're not suppose to run bias ply with radials, has to be the same compound tire on all 4s but I'm not 100% sure if you can have different brands at either end?


G-Man - As I said, I don't want to go 16 or 17" but if it means getting a better car and better traction from it, so be it. Performance first, looks second. It'll only be 17" rear if I do go that way. Being all black, black rim, black tire etc it won't stand out too much, in fact not many would notice it. I just want a good all round car that can handle, go hard and bite and not need to tub it. I feel with the proper suspension and tire choice this can be achieved.

[HP2]

The S/R is a very nice tire and I'm seriously considering getting them for my next set. Either that or I'll go all out and put real Goodyear racing slicks with a hand cut tread underneath the beast.

As far as mixing and matching goes, matching tread patterns aren't as important to feel or performance or safety as construction is. Tire construction is more important which is why you don't mix bias and radial tires. Now, with that said you can run into tread patterns that may work differently in different conditions, i.e.  a BFG TA up front will work good in the wet whereas the TA drag radial will hydro-plane with much less water or speed, which will create an odd handling situation. So long as you have radials all around, you'll typically be okay. Of course, you may find yourself replacing the rears more often when you the power on demand that you will.

Couple places you may want to check out.

http://www.tires-easy.com/start.html  These guys offer a considerable selection of a variety of different manufacturers. More than I've seen offered in any one place. Definetly worth a look.

http://www.rogerkrausracing.com/Cobra/  If you really want to get down with serious 15" performance tires, these are the guys to know. Not everything is d.o.t. approved, however, but they  do have the ultimate in tires, many with painted lettering. Be prepared to spend $$ for the ultimate though.

[Carlwalski]

Awesome, thanks Tony. I was pretty sure different brands up front and at the rear would be fine as long as it's the same compound but I wanted some confirmation to put my mind at rest. At this stage I think that's what I'll be doing. Getting 275/60 BFGoodrich Radial T/As for the look and hopefully they maybe OK with the 3 link and suspension set up and daily driving and for my all out go/driving tires I'll have some mounted 305 Sportsman S/R radials to throw on the back if I'm going away or wanting to drive the car. I think that's as best as I can do to get both the RWL & performance. Those S/R tires do look like an awesome new age tire from one of the best.