Author Topic: new at bodywork  (Read 1180 times)

Offline 70RAGTOPR/T

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new at bodywork
« on: February 12, 2008 - 12:26:02 PM »
I advise in doing bodywork.  I purchased a stud welder last week and I need to get off my rrear and start working on my project.  I read in Mopar Muscle how one can save a lot of money by doing a lot of the work themselves.  So I come to the experts for advise.  I don't have a lot of damage.  I want to start with my right front fender.  It's pushed in right at the front light bezel and along the side.  Should I leave the fender on the car as I work?  How do I use the welder correctly?  I know this sound like body shop 001 but I'm use taking parts off and put new ones on.  I will post picks sometime soon.  Also, can you provide picks.  Thanks in advance for your advise.

Walt




Offline Red R/T

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Re: new at bodywork
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2008 - 12:52:38 PM »
I applaude you 70RA.  I wish I had the time and space to try doing more myself.  I hope you get the advice and help you need.  Good luck. Chuck
1970 Challenger U code R/T SE

Offline shawge

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Re: new at bodywork
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2008 - 01:11:18 PM »
You might want to remove the fender so that you can access the back side of the damaged areas.  Pictures of the areas you plan to work on would be helpful.

I assume you have a set of hammers and dollies.  Do you have a shrinking tip for the stud welder?  I've found that the shrinking tip was extremely useful in dealing with the shallow oilcan dents.
- Jerry

Offline ViperMan

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Re: new at bodywork
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2008 - 02:25:56 PM »
GET SCRAP METAL...  Don't do any welding/pounding/cutting on your car until you have at least some experience using the tools.

Stud guns work best when a very short pull of the trigger is used.  You don't want to apply any more heat than required to bond the stud to the metal.  Too much heat can cause the stud to actually burn through the metal, leaving you with a hole that needs repaired.  It can also cause shrinking, pulling metal around the area towards the stud, causing uneven density in the metal.  Practice pulling the trigger until only a pencil-tip heat mark shows on the backside of the metal.  Remember, if you pull it too quickly, the worse you're going to do is waste a stud - this is preferred over repairing holes and trying to stretch the metal back out!

Also, a hammer and dolly set are almost mandatory.  Get a set from Harbor Freight if nothing else.  Be sure to get a few curved dollies and a flat dolly.

When moving metal - such as taking out bends or folds, you're moving metal at a molecular level.  If metal has been forced into itself, it needs to stretch back out.  The molecules have been packed tight in some areas, loose in others.  Accomplish this by hammering on the metal with the dolly directly beneath your hammer blows.  This will pinch the metal between the hammer and dolly surfaces, stretching the metal.  If metal has been displaced - such as a dimple, dent or fold, the molecules have been stretched apart and need to be forced closer to each other - towards normal density.  If the dimple is into the metal, the best result would be from hammering at the backside of the metal - on the top of the dimple.  Place your dolly over the dome of the dimple on the front side (the other side), and hammer until JUST when the metal flattens between the hammer and the dolly - you'll hear a different tone - this tells you the metal has moved flat, and repeated blows will begin stretching the metal again.  Basically you're placing the hammer head and the dolly on the opposite surfaces, and hammering until those surfaces meet.  If it's still not quite right, find new high and low spots.  Just remember not to hammer onto the dolly as it will stretch your metal and can cause "oil canning."  Lastly, plan your moves carefully and ahead of time.  Metal working is like chess - it can beat you at your own game.  If you keep working the same spot, or stretching and shrinking, stretching and shrinking over and over again, the metal becomes work hardened.  Doing this can cause the metal to crack, and even welding won't help - the metal will have to be cut out and replaced.  This can happen EASILY with a shrinking head on a stud gun, so be careful.

If you're going to be making patch panels, consider buying a set of "Shrinker Stretchers."  These can mount onto work benches, even onto short bar stools, and can create tons of different pieces for window trims, door trims, fender corners, etc.  Very, very, very valuable pieces of machinery, and relatively inexpensive.

Of course you might want to get a welder eventually.  I advise getting the best you can possibly afford - something that uses a gas tank with Argon gas.  MIG is best for starters.  It can be a little hard to fix MIG mistakes than TIG mistakes, but MIG is easier to learn, and - if done right - will make very few mistakes.

I picked up welding and metal work very quickly at WyoTech.  I wish I had more time to practice the skills, and wish I had the tools themselves so that I could continue practicing with them.  I intend on eventually buying ALL of these pieces when it comes time to start working on Project Gold Fish.

Best of luck, and don't forget - PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!

Jeff
« Last Edit: February 12, 2008 - 02:31:28 PM by 73Barracuda »
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Offline ViperMan

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Re: new at bodywork
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2008 - 02:38:37 PM »
In response to the other questions, by the way, it's easier to work with the fender off of the car.  There's no need to have it on the car until you get to final fitment with the edges, which can be some pretty heavy duty work if you're looking for show quality.

Another good tip is to lightly prime the metal with paint before metal working.  Have sandpaper nearby (180 grit is fine) on a block sander.  Every once in a while, use a light cross-hatch pattern (basically an X shape) over the area you're working - this will help you see high and low spots while you're going along.  If you sand and see a spot that hasn't been sanded, that spot is low.  If there's a sanded spot with unsanded spots all around, then the sanded spot is high.

And again, 'cause I only quickly mentioned it before, listen to the sound as you're hamming.  The further the hammer and dolly are from each other, the deeper the "thuds" will sound.  As they move closer, the pitch will increase until you have a light, tinking noise.  Practice panels will help you identify this.  Get an old fender or door and just start hammerin' the sh!t out of it.  :)

Jeff
2000 Dodge Viper GTS Coupe - 8.0L V10, 6-Speed Tremec
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited - Trail Rated - 4.7L V8, Auto
2010 Dodge Challenger SE Rallye - 3.5L V6, Auto (Wife's!)

Offline 70RAGTOPR/T

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Re: new at bodywork
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2008 - 07:28:45 AM »
Jeff and Shawge ......  Thanks for your advise.  I do have a set of dollies and hammers.  I'm glad I asked for advise.  I would have created more work for myself.  I was going to use the stud welder while the fender was still on the car.  Now I know differently.  I will post some pics tonight so you can get a better picture of what I'm attempting to do.  Again thanks for your advise.

Walt

Offline ViperMan

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Re: new at bodywork
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2008 - 11:28:42 AM »
Do you have a slide hammer?  'Cause a stud welder is kidna pointless without a slide hammer.

The stud-welder/slide hammer technique is often used on areas like quarter panels and roofs where it's difficult to get the dolly on the other side of the metal.  If you can remove the fender, you really won't need the stud welder.

Jeff
2000 Dodge Viper GTS Coupe - 8.0L V10, 6-Speed Tremec
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited - Trail Rated - 4.7L V8, Auto
2010 Dodge Challenger SE Rallye - 3.5L V6, Auto (Wife's!)

Offline 70RAGTOPR/T

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Re: new at bodywork
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2008 - 12:47:11 PM »
Jeff....Thanks for the info. The welder came with a slide hammer.  I purchased the welder from HF for $97 on sale.  Well I do have a few rough areas on the 1/4's.  Should I drill 1/16" holes by the bolts on top so I can align the fender when I'm done?

Walt

Offline ViperMan

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Re: new at bodywork
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2008 - 01:37:30 PM »
I'm not sure I follow you there...  By what bolts on top?  I must admit I've never dissasembled an E-body - only Fords.

The fender should have shims installed to set it at it's current alignment.  The best restoration tip is to get plastic zip-lock sandwich bags and store the shims in a bag - mark it with a sharpee as to which bolt on which fender the shims belong to - it'll make it easiest to put it back where it was.  Use a paint-stick to gauge the gap between the panels when reinstalling - paint-sticks are the "preferred thickness" for body gaps by the restoration industry.

Hope this helps - if you can show some pics for what you mean by drilling holes, I can give more insight.

Y'all didn't know 73Barracuda had some restoration experience, didja?  :)

Jeff
2000 Dodge Viper GTS Coupe - 8.0L V10, 6-Speed Tremec
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited - Trail Rated - 4.7L V8, Auto
2010 Dodge Challenger SE Rallye - 3.5L V6, Auto (Wife's!)

Offline 70RAGTOPR/T

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Re: new at bodywork
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2008 - 07:11:10 AM »
I'll have some free time tonight.  I will post the pics.  Thanks

As for the bolts, I saw on Muscle Car (Project Overkill), they drilled alignment holes near the shims so they had a starting place for aligning the fender.  I was just wondering if this was correct?  Again thanks for your help Jeff.  As the kids would say, you have skills.

Walt

Offline ViperMan

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Re: new at bodywork
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2008 - 02:28:14 PM »
Lol - actually I just have training and a great memory...

"Skillz" - as the kids would put it - is actually what I lack!

Jeff
2000 Dodge Viper GTS Coupe - 8.0L V10, 6-Speed Tremec
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited - Trail Rated - 4.7L V8, Auto
2010 Dodge Challenger SE Rallye - 3.5L V6, Auto (Wife's!)