Author Topic: How did the Challenger come about?  (Read 5867 times)

Offline DAYTONA

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1760
Re: How did the Challenger come about?
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2008 - 01:03:11 PM »
The collective knowledge on this site never ceases to amaze me.

Thanks for the info.

...I don't think there is ANYTHING Barry doesn't know.....outstanding wealth of knowledge :bigsmile:




Offline jeryst

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2032
Re: How did the Challenger come about?
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2008 - 02:02:47 PM »
I had read that Dodge dealers were demanding that Dodge come up with a version of the A-body Barracuda, but Lynn Townsend wanted to keep it a Plymouth-only deal, so they came up with '66 Charger as a way of giving Dodge dealers a sportier call to sell.

Mike

That makes sense, come to think of it, since there is no Plymouth equivelent of the Charger.

Offline KFD

  • I'm big in Japan!
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 114
  • Owner, sweet pistolgrip shift handle.
    • Kelly's Cars
Re: How did the Challenger come about?
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2008 - 03:38:37 PM »

Knudsen and the 400 inch rule was GM....Chrysler and Ford never went along with it....by 1969, GM was producing a 455 in the Olds and the ban was down the tubes


Yes, Daytona, you are absolutely correct. Chryco didn't have to follow that ban, but in keeping marketable with a comparable product, the Challenger was envisioned to be a.) that stopgap in the void created by the Camaro and Mustang, and b.) a lithe maneuverable platform, similar to the A-body. The car wasn't intended to have the R/B powerplant, because frankly, in 1967, it wasn't needed. The Camaro had the 396, The Mustang had the 390. Now, Oldsmobile essentially gave Knudsen the finger when they built the built the Hurst Olds. Money walks, 442s were a hit, and the ban was lifted. This gave Chrysler a paradox, albeit a small one. The big gun was originally going to be the 383, but in engineering and styling making concessions to each other utilized that bigger b-body box, so if needed be, the big guns could be fitted in that compartment. The Chassis was still intended to be the B motor's home, but throwing bigger torsion bars on the front of the car had little effect on the fact that 716 lbs. of pig iron in the nose was up front-combined with a shorter overhang in the back than its B-body bretheren. I remember an installment on John Sloan's article "Challenger Confidential" back in '94 on HPM, where a exec took a big block home one night to awaken to a light dusting of snow, and the nose-heavy car just spun and spun that rear tire. Even with the  longer wheelbase than the 'Cuda, the Challys still had that problem. Again, my avatar picture is a 1967 sketch of a car envisioned to be a chassis more akin to an A-body, with a tightly packaged 383 sitting lower and farther behind. Like I said, concessions changed that. Dodge, in a sense was making a Camaro from Chevelle parts, not Nova parts.

KFD
Aprilia RSV 1000. Ask the man who owns one!

Offline MJS73

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1522
    • Mike's 1973 Challenger
Re: How did the Challenger come about?
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2008 - 06:43:38 PM »
Quote
The car wasn't intended to have the R/B powerplant, because frankly, in 1967, it wasn't needed.

That contradicts everything that I've read in multiple books that one of the mandates for the E-body was that it had to be able to handle any powerplant that Chrysler made, from the Slant 6 to the Hemi.  This was one of the reasons that they used the B-body cowl, that it was wide enough to handle the big blocks.

Mike
www.mikes73.com
Don't PM me - send me an e-mail at mjsavage2001@yahoo.com


Offline DAYTONA

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1760
Re: How did the Challenger come about?
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2008 - 06:46:44 PM »

Yes, Daytona, you are absolutely correct. Chryco didn't have to follow that ban, but in keeping marketable with a comparable product, the Challenger was envisioned to be a.) that stopgap in the void created by the Camaro and Mustang, and b.) a lithe maneuverable platform, similar to the A-body. The car wasn't intended to have the R/B powerplant, because frankly, in 1967, it wasn't needed. The Camaro had the 396, The Mustang had the 390. Now, Oldsmobile essentially gave Knudsen the finger when they built the built the Hurst Olds. Money walks, 442s were a hit, and the ban was lifted. This gave Chrysler a paradox, albeit a small one. The big gun was originally going to be the 383, but in engineering and styling making concessions to each other utilized that bigger b-body box, so if needed be, the big guns could be fitted in that compartment. The Chassis was still intended to be the B motor's home, but throwing bigger torsion bars on the front of the car had little effect on the fact that 716 lbs. of pig iron in the nose was up front-combined with a shorter overhang in the back than its B-body bretheren. I remember an installment on John Sloan's article "Challenger Confidential" back in '94 on HPM, where a exec took a big block home one night to awaken to a light dusting of snow, and the nose-heavy car just spun and spun that rear tire. Even with the  longer wheelbase than the 'Cuda, the Challys still had that problem. Again, my avatar picture is a 1967 sketch of a car envisioned to be a chassis more akin to an A-body, with a tightly packaged 383 sitting lower and farther behind. Like I said, concessions changed that. Dodge, in a sense was making a Camaro from Chevelle parts, not Nova parts.

KFD

...very interesting read....I have driven CUDAs and Challengers in the snow and they sure are helpless :roflsmiley:....I had a 70 HEMI Challenger and it was nearly impossible to control rear spin on dry pavement under heavy acceleration....but, we love 'em anyway

Offline KFD

  • I'm big in Japan!
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 114
  • Owner, sweet pistolgrip shift handle.
    • Kelly's Cars
Re: How did the Challenger come about?
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2008 - 03:34:50 PM »
That contradicts everything that I've read in multiple books that one of the mandates for the E-body was that it had to be able to handle any powerplant that Chrysler made, from the Slant 6 to the Hemi.  This was one of the reasons that they used the B-body cowl, that it was wide enough to handle the big blocks.

Mike

Yeah, to some extent. Chrysler went to the B-body cowl for that reason. It was originally intended for the 383, but learning from the big block A-bodies, Chrysler wanted to circumvent that issue in case it ever came up, which was a lot sooner than they planned.
KFD
Aprilia RSV 1000. Ask the man who owns one!

Offline alphabuck

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 316
    • Pics of my project
Re: How did the Challenger come about?
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2008 - 08:30:44 AM »
I was just wondering...

There were a-body Cudas before the e-bodies came out. Why wasnt there an a-body Challenger? Why was the Challenger created in the e-body platform? Just curious if anyone knows any history.

god needed a car

Offline 1970RTSE

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 184
Re: How did the Challenger come about?
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2008 - 04:27:54 PM »
That contradicts everything that I've read in multiple books that one of the mandates for the E-body was that it had to be able to handle any powerplant that Chrysler made, from the Slant 6 to the Hemi.  This was one of the reasons that they used the B-body cowl, that it was wide enough to handle the big blocks.

Mike

In the early stages, the car was not supposed to get the hemi, so only room enough for a 383 was looked at.  But as the project progressed, and the street wars heated up, it was decided to fit the Hemi.  So the car got a whole lot wider and larger.  To save time, the upcoming B-body underpinnings were used.  IIRC, the 71 B-body was supposed to be intorduced in 70.  So that is why the 70-74 e-body share 71 b-body, and not the 68-70 b-body.

Offline HemiOrange70

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2062
Re: How did the Challenger come about?
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2008 - 10:28:53 PM »
Dodge had the A body dart to match against the  barracuda but jumped on board with the Cuda with Challenger. Dodge originally wnated nothing to do with the Road runner but jumped on board a year later with the super bee .ON the eigth day God created Challenger

Offline 72rtchallenger

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1734
  • 72 to 70 clone
    • cardomain
Re: How did the Challenger come about?
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2008 - 06:35:35 PM »
I was just wondering...

There were a-body Cudas before the e-bodies came out. Why wasnt there an a-body Challenger? Why was the Challenger created in the e-body platform? Just curious if anyone knows any history.
the a-body was before the cuda & challenger because,, a barracuda (a-body) and other a-bodys were an era ago automobile industry and racing,,,when the cuda & challenger came out,, the challenger was for  t/a racing,, and aar cudas,were also i believe,,and the e-body was to compete with the pony cars of the era, the mustang for one,, gm had several too,,it was a mid size car,,and had high powered motors for the men of the era and slant sixs for the whiped,,then they cracked down on emissions control and then,they made family rides with a smile from the blue collar worker to drive a piece of history,,the era was long different from today
72rtchallenger
my challengers restro at http://www.cardomain.com/ride/399010
what happens in the garage
stays in the garage