Author Topic: Fuel pump? What's everyone running?  (Read 12950 times)

Offline moper

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Re: Fuel pump? What's everyone running?
« Reply #45 on: January 19, 2009 - 11:59:38 AM »
The cool part about electrical fans is they can be turned of when not needed, where mechanical cannot. Even when a clutch fan is slipping, they take power. In terms of friction, in a small block I dont believe there is a huge savings. In a big block, certainly is. It's a shorter arm so more force is required, and the end of the pushrod on the cam is a small surface area so again, more force thru the smaller area. I dont think we're talking 10s here, probably more on the order of 5 or less. But it's there. The larger the pump, the more power it saps. On teh up side, most mechanicals do not need regulators and look less menacing. I use the Carter HV pump that looks stock for most of my street stuff. Or a stock one. I have had no starvation issues, even using a stock pump with 150hp plate system ona  340 and 175 plate on a 383. But were stock aftermarket replacement pumps and 5/16" line with no returns. I like the service bonuses teh electrics give, but they have a place, and mild builds are not them IMO.




Offline Roppa440

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Re: Fuel pump? What's everyone running?
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2009 - 04:27:46 AM »
If you need a big fuel supply (or use NOS) you have no choice. You have to go electric pump. But I think what we have seen here is that you do not need to go to electric pump until you get over about 550hp.

I was not completely fair with my comments. I just like asking difficult questions or making statements to generate discussion.  :icon16:
In reality it depends on which system is more efficient. Rotary pumps may well be more efficient. I don't actually know. ;)

But with all things being equally efficient then I stand by what I said. There will be fewer HP losses if driven mechanically directly. Electrical power in itself will only free up HP is it is supplied from an outside source (such as what happens on most engine dynos).
Dave
1970 Challenger R/T
1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited

Offline tvacuda340

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Re: Fuel pump? What's everyone running?
« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2009 - 03:36:26 PM »
I  use 2 pcs of   255 walbro inline   ....the second start at 7 psc boost
make no noise   ...
( I trye mallory + holley but where noisy )

Offline ntstlgl1970

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Re: Fuel pump? What's everyone running?
« Reply #48 on: January 27, 2009 - 04:59:00 PM »
The Carter Electric and Mallory are both really quiet. I was running a holley blue with the carb, that is a noisy sob. I can hear it over the engine @ idle after driving for a few hours (the longer the drive, the louder it got). I ran a return line from the regulator back to the tank as well. When I finish the injection conversion, I have an Aeromotive A1000 that I'm going to put in the tank, I understand those are noisy too, hopefully it wont be as loud as the holley blue pump.
70 Cuda, 7.0L Gen-III Hemi, Viper T56 w/9310 gearset, 3.91's, Megasquirt MS3x v3.57, Innovate wideband, Firm Feel upper arms, torsion bars, springs and strut rods, QA1 DA shocks. I did everything on this car except the fancy paint stuff and I drive it...and I can't seem to stop messing with it....

Offline PlumCraZRT

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Re: Fuel pump? What's everyone running?
« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2009 - 11:01:49 AM »
In engineering you never get something for nothing and there are always losses when converting one form of energy into another.

Hydro-electric conversion being *nearly* the only exclusion.  They get some 99.XX% efficiency (but there are still losses ;))  I agree, all things being equal, running mechanical is the most efficient.  The way I see it, how much power would it take to pump the gas anyway (from a purely engineering standpoint)?  1 maybe 2 hp?  Now call it only 50% efficient.  Now it costs us 2 or 4 hp.  Now say there are 20% losses in electric to mechanical conversion.  I think we are all debating over a ~>1 hp difference between the power for a mech vs elec.

Now if Roppa were wrong, why wouldn't everyone run mechanical blowers?  There's an answer to that question in one of the recent Hot Rod mags in the Tech Garage or whatever they call it.
mmmmm.... Mopar.... *drool*

Offline moparmaniac59

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Re: Fuel pump? What's everyone running?
« Reply #50 on: January 28, 2009 - 04:16:53 PM »
I currently run a Mallory electric fuel pump on my '68 Barracuda with small block modified 360. It has a bypass regulator and return line back to the tank with 3/8 braided lines. I think it puts out 14 psi and I have my regulator set at about 7.5 psi. I had a Holley Blue (two of them actually) that burned up :swear: in part to what I felt was the fact that it was a single feed line with no means to return the unused fuel back to the tank. It was supposed to be for continuous use (as advertised, as some pumps aren't), but I think it was just too much back pressure and caused the pump to burn up after about 6 months usage. I had many long discussions with Holley about this on the phone :pullinghair: and they replaced the first one at no cost to me. After the 2nd one burned up, I went with the Mallory and the bypass regulator. I also installed a fuel cell that had an application point for a return line. This may also be a problem with a factory gas tank to consider. If you go with a Holley Blue, I suggest using a bypass regulator to prevent back pressure from burning the pump out prematurely. It (the Holley) does NOT come with this type setup. it would have to be purchased separately. This is just from my own personal experience. The Mallory was installed several years ago and runs perfect, is (like mentioned) very quiet and purrs like a kitten. Also one thing I don't think was mentioned was if you are running an electric fuel pump, you should consider using a fuel pump relay as it will prevent voltage fluctuations and prevent amperage overloads which can also prematurely KILL your electric fuel pump!! I think a mech is fine too unless you are running a high HP fuel sucking motor like over 550or so HP. Just my  :2cents:

                                                                            Matt B.
Matt

Offline Roppa440

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Re: Fuel pump? What's everyone running?
« Reply #51 on: January 29, 2009 - 06:15:26 AM »
Hydro-electric conversion being *nearly* the only exclusion.  They get some 99.XX% efficiency (but there are still losses ;))  I agree, all things being equal, running mechanical is the most efficient.  The way I see it, how much power would it take to pump the gas anyway (from a purely engineering standpoint)?  1 maybe 2 hp?  Now call it only 50% efficient.  Now it costs us 2 or 4 hp.  Now say there are 20% losses in electric to mechanical conversion.  I think we are all debating over a ~>1 hp difference between the power for a mech vs elec.

Now if Roppa were wrong, why wouldn't everyone run mechanical blowers?  There's an answer to that question in one of the recent Hot Rod mags in the Tech Garage or whatever they call it.

This topic always makes me smile because it makes you really think doesn't it? :D

You never see electric blowers do you? So obviously driving it electrically is very inefficient. However Turbos, which have no electrical or mechanical drive from the engine, are very efficient.

It boils down to this for me. People say they want to fit electrical cooling fans and pumps because it "frees up horsepower". That cannot be true.
You need to know which way is more mechanically efficient before you can decide the best way of powering equipment. And what is more efficient at lower rpms or power levels may not be the same at higher power levels and rpms. And vice-versa.
Dave
1970 Challenger R/T
1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited

Offline the_engineers

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Re: Fuel pump? What's everyone running?
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2009 - 09:21:34 AM »
Not so fast... :bigsmile:

http://www.autoaccessorystore.com/resource/turbo/electricturbo.asp

Maybe that's not the best example  :dunno:
Brooks

1971 'Cuda 360
2004 Infiniti G35 6-spd Coupe
2001 Toyota Solara Convertible
2002 GMC Savana 1500 Explorer Hightop Conversion
1972 Dodge Dart Swinger...keeping the Slant.  Rocking the turbos.

Offline Roppa440

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Re: Fuel pump? What's everyone running?
« Reply #53 on: January 29, 2009 - 10:39:09 AM »
Yeah that will get me into the 10s. :grinno: :thumbsup:
Dave
1970 Challenger R/T
1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited

Offline the_engineers

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Re: Fuel pump? What's everyone running?
« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2009 - 09:33:01 AM »
I'm sure that products like that strike fear into the hearts of big-block owners everywhere.
Brooks

1971 'Cuda 360
2004 Infiniti G35 6-spd Coupe
2001 Toyota Solara Convertible
2002 GMC Savana 1500 Explorer Hightop Conversion
1972 Dodge Dart Swinger...keeping the Slant.  Rocking the turbos.