Big inch stroker small block blower build

[quagmire]

Well things are going good at my new job amazingly, and all of the other guys in the office are obviously gearheads too that regularly go to the tracks.  Several of them have beastly "other brand" cars with Roots blown big or small blocks that would make mine look really bad.  Naturally, I think I have to represent Mopar and get a little more serious with my engine even if I am still the oddball.    I am currently switching over to EFI, and I will start planning a bigger and badder stroker motor for the future. 

I'm thinking about building a 470ish stroker with one of the new R3 340 siamese bore resto blocks.  There is no way a stock block will handle the amount of power I plan on making.  If they had aluminum blocks out I'd jump all over that, because I've heard the R3's are porky.  I already have main and head studs and will definitely run MLS gaskets on this build too.  The internals will be all forged of course, and I will be contacting Shady Dell to max out my heads and my Super Victor EFI manifold.  I'm considering running the custom Speedomotive stroker kit possibly with aluminum rods and crank lightening, to lose reciprocating weight.  I'd like to keep compression at around 9.5:1 to keep off boost response and efficiency up.  I should still be able to run quite a bit of boost still as long as I tune it well and run meth/water injection.  Any thoughts/insights/alternatives would be appreciated on this and all of the other parts. 

I'm also going to be using a healthy sized Doug Herbert solid roller cam and lifter set up.  I know I will need the block tubed, but I also have heard that the lifter valley on the 59* R3 blocks is very thick and will require a lot of grinding to clear the lifter links.  Anybody know how hard this is to do or if it will weaken the block substantially?  Any other problems with this conversion?  How do small block guys control cam thrust with rollers?  I'd like to do all of the assembly and whatever I can myself to save money and not give anyone else a chance to mess up.  If this isn't feasible I'll have to stick to a solid grind I guess.

On top of that I will be running a Paxton Novi 1500 or 2000 supercharger with as much boost as I can. I will need to find a shop to make a custom bracket and tensioner, and possibly a crank pulley with a trigger wheel to work with my March serpentine setup so I can run coil packs.  My Megasquirt ECU can control meth injection systems, so I will not need an intercooler.  I should be able to make a whole lot of perfectly streetable power on pump gas with this build.  I will also make another tune for higher boost on race gas.

Any advice or info on things I missed would be awesome, none of this is set in stone yet.  I will likely put the blower on my current motor next summer and run low boost (5lbs.) until I complete this beast.  Only things I am set on are supercharging it and staying small block.  I know the chassis and drivetrain will need attention too.  One thing at a time.  I want this car to turn corners too eventually when I become immensely wealthy.  (Hey I can have dreams!)

[Chryco Psycho]

the cam grind will be critical , I would drop the compression below 9:1as well

[71chally416]

They sell used Nascar stuff on Ebay for dirt if you're interested in a 850hp 358 cube motor. It only has 500 miles on it  You can start with these> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NASCAR-DODGE-MOPAR-P7-CYLINDER-HEADS-R5-block_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116QQhashZitem270196562626QQitemZ270196562626QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[quagmire]

Ha ha, it's tempting!  I don't think the car would be able to run on pump gas or be very streetable with one of those motors though.  But it sure would be pretty crazy to have an 850HP NA small block.  That's a big part of why I want to go the forced induction route, I won't need monster heads, cam or compression ratio so it should be more street friendly.  It'll also let me use my current heads, which I'll be getting worked anyways.  The cost would go up quite a bit if I had to buy a whole new top end too. 

[Ck[FIN]]

I dont know what kind of stuff speedomotive sells but i would use BME aluminium rods. Extremely good stuff.

[moper]

I would change a few things... You have EFI. IMO, if you are really serious (and it sounds like it) the only way to go is intercooled turbo. A blower will make boost. But, it takes a TON of power to drive, especially at high boost numbers on an engine built for it. Teh block... I'd buy it complete and ready to asemble from Ryan. He has CNC programs to lighten and clearance those specific blocks for rollers. If you;re getting heads there any way, might as well. On the rods... I would not use an aluminum rod unless it's a bracket car. Use a top of the line (Oliver, Howards, etc ?) I beam steel rod. They are light, and strong, and will live for years. Aluminum simply won't. The methyl injection is like NOS. You have to keep filling it, and it can be a plumbing nightmare, not to mention the extra tank, lines, pump, etc that goes with it. A custom intercooler is as simple as a drawing with good measurements, or I'm sure an off the shelf unit can be found. I saw 4-5 at a local swap yesterday. In fact, there was a mustang guy selling a lightly used turbo system. Complete (for a carburetor) with everything for $1000. You would need custom headers... big deal. It is more moeny, but the reason you see 1000hp turbo engines is there is zero parasitic drag and they are softer on an engine because of the lack of crank twist. The cam will be critical. Boost cams are different, and turbos are different than centrificals. In any event, use some real heads (not RPMs) and a big throttle body. I'd bet with less than 10 psi you can clear 800hp at the crank with perfect street manners. Remember that "boost" is the pressure, or resistance to air flow" in an intake system. So the better the flow, the less "boost" will show on the gage, butt he more power you make. The most expensive part will be the headers. 

[quagmire]

I wouldn't mind going the turbo route if it weren't for the need of all the custom exhaust work.  It would be really expensive and make working on the car a huge chore with pipes running all over.  I like centrifugals on big V-8s for the simplicity.  While they are definitely less efficient than turbos, they are still better than Roots blowers at least.  I can live with that.

The meth injection setup I am talking about simply uses washer fluid and injects it at rates I can program via the Megasquirt.  Luckily I am in the process of turboing my brothers car with MS, so I will have it down pat when I do mine.  It is quite simple and VERY effective since it also bumps the octane level like 6 points in addition to cooling the intake charge.  And washer fluid is cheap and readily available.  I can piece together the hardware for under $200.  I know a couple guys who switched to it, and they can last almost a month (they are daily drivers) depending on how hard they are driving.  They also said the intake charge is at a lower temp now with no intercooler than it was with one.  So I really won't have a need for an intercooler and its additional plumbing, especially at low boost levels.

I will definitely talk to Ryan about getting a machined block from him, that'd save me a ton of headache and trying to find a GOOD Mopar shop.  I didn't know he did that work, thanks for the heads up!  I've heard the R3 blocks can come all kinds of messed up from the factory.  I was iffy on the Al rods too, probably best I use steel.  How much would a custom solid roller blower cam cost, and where should I get it made?  None of the off the shelf ones seem to have wide enough centerlines to lessen valve overlap.

[moper]

I may be preaching, but 'd still like a shot on the soapbox...lol I'm sure the meth works. There's a fellow on the A body site that makes 530 something horse to the tires with a blower and one of the the Snow systems. But honestly, that blower is eating up at least 100hp if not a lot more. He had to fab up his own brackets. I just consider "the meth" a band aid...lol. And as for blowers.. I managed a shop that was (and is) a Procharger dealer. They are cool, but with belt issues, pulley isssues, and the forces on the crank, and the losses... It's nothing I'd use any more. If they were cheaper, sure. But you can get the turbo parts pretty cheaply, and fab up the tubing, the headers will cost, but I can see it being more than $1500. Less if you score a used complete system abnd just toss the headers. The more powerful centrificals use so much up... how much is 250hp and drivability without worrying about refilling meth or a parts failure fromm overcomplicating worth?

As far as custom cams... I havent ordered a custom solid roller... I've always used shelf part number roller cams. So I'd have to say "call for price"...lol

[quagmire]

I really don't want to go the turbo route.  I don't have the facilities to fab up the hot pipes and headers, and new turbos aren't cheap either.  Name brand ones are well at least around 1K each, and that would be for the smaller ones.  Throw in two wastegates ($200 each), a good blowoff valve ($200), and all the custom piping and the cost would be huge.  An even bigger problem around here would be finding a reasonable AND knowledgeable shop.  Trust me, if I had those skills and tools I probably would go that route since I'd be saving a lot of money by doing the piping myself. 

Meth can be used with turbo too, it's just an alternative (a better one too) to running intercoolers.  To get the same benefits I'd have to run expensive race gas and very efficient and pricey air to water intercoolers.  I don't mind having to periodically add <$2 a gallon washer fluid.  I can even fine tune the PWM output of the spray in relation to load, RPM, temp, and boost pressure.  They are plenty reliable as long as they are set up properly, just like anything else.  I'll probably install a float sensor hooked up to both an idiot light and the MS so it will automatically restrict power output when low. 

[moper]

The most powerful street race cars I know are not dual turbos, but a single. Dual turbos spool too fast and blow the tires off. I wasnt talking about duals...lol. see the link:
 http://www.turbochargers.com/store/product_info.php/cPath/21_37_218/products_id/1662   This one can support 1000hp for $995. A smaller unit supporting 600hp runs $200 cheaper. Battery goes in trunk, lose P/S, and the orbo gets mounted in that front corner. Plumbing goes from lefft side, thru intercooler, back in right side to throttle body. Peice of cake

A friend has a 380" pump gas small block ford, single turbo, the car runs high 8s. I've seen it run 10.50s and never hitting 3rd gear (not safe per NHRA for the speeds) and gliding thru the traps at 130.

However, I recognize your decision. That's all I'll say about that...lol.