Author Topic: Professional Opinions on Bodywork  (Read 1267 times)

Offline quagmire

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Professional Opinions on Bodywork
« on: July 17, 2009 - 11:34:03 PM »
I'm getting tired of the Chevy guys I'm surrounded by at work making fun of my "Joe Dirt" Mopar, and to be honest I want to take care of the body now before it gets worse.  She is pretty ugly with the 4 shades of red and torn top.  I took a ton of pics, I'm wondering what you guys think of what will all be needed and how severe the damage is. 

I was actually shocked by how good of shape this thing is for being a Chicago area car with mostly original sheet metal.  Their are a lot of traces of under coat in the inside of the quarters, floor area, and wheel houses.  Must have worked pretty well!

I'm almost positive I will need to replace the trunk floor, trunk extensions, maybe both outer wheel houses, the right quarter panel (maybe just skin?), floor pan right under the drivers feet, rockers, part if not all of the rear frame rails, and patch the left cowl area.  Everything else looked very solid.  The front and rear window areas will need a little work as will the right inner fender area, but I think they are salvageable.  Someone hung a left quarter on this car, but I think they hung it wrong.  I can see where the current valence was cut, welded, and the seam filled to line it up.  The trunk section looks off too.  I first thought I had a sagged frame or spring, but the actual quarter is about an 1" lower on that side.  Can that be fixed without destroying the current panel?  It's in excellent shape with minor surface rust.

I will be installing torque boxes and the XV stiffening kit when I do this, and will likely be turning the car into a 1970 clone car.  I also will be installing a dual exhaust rear valence and 1970 front and rear bumpers with brackets.  Not a fan of the 1974 cow catchers. 

I have zero experience with paint or bodywork, I have just about every other part of auto repair down.  If I can, I'd like to take care of as much prep work and metal as possible while letting someone else to the sanding and paint.  That part is just too crucial for a first timer like me to attempt, I'll lose it if I do it wrong after countless hours.  I just can't see my self paying upwards of 20 grand for paint and body. 

What tools, supplies, chemicals, and what not should I have, and what could I do in a garage with no lift or rotisserie?  I'd like to clean, prep, treat, and paint every possible part of the underside of the car now so I don't have to deal with rust later.  I will also be starting with the underside since it'll be safer to learn on the parts you can't see.  I appreciate all advice and opinions!
 


Here is the link:  http://s796.photobucket.com/albums/yy250/dmod1974/
« Last Edit: July 17, 2009 - 11:37:19 PM by quagmire »




Offline torredcuda

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Re: Professional Opinions on Bodywork
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2009 - 07:24:22 AM »
Well even though I did bodywork for years I still learned a lot doing my cuda as it was my first full resto.You can do everything in your garage with no lift and rotisserie,just get some good jack stands-I have four regular(quality) stands and four "truck" stands which are just bigger/taller versions and the extra hieght is very helpfull when working underneath.You will also need a decent welder and hammers/dollies,grinder,3"cutoff tool. and a small blaster(a bucket siphon feed type will do for small spots)I good compressor is nice but you can get away with elecetric tools but it will limit your primer spraying to rattle cans.First thing to do is strip and bag/tag everyhting and get the shell blasted and find out how many rust holes you have that you didn`t see.I could write pages of info but that should at least give you some ideas.
Jeff
72 Barracuda 340/4spd  Torred
70 roadrunner 383/auto  In-Violet
70 Duster 360/auto drag car  (Petty Blue soon)
04 Ram 2500 5.7 Hemi

Offline BB73Challenger

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Re: Professional Opinions on Bodywork
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2009 - 08:35:48 AM »
The Cuda I'm currently restoring is a very similar situation.
I started with a car that is solid, but had many areas of concern to head off future problems.

To start, I have a 2-1/2 car garage, and boy I could still use more room, but I have gotten through the tough part by moving stuff around. I bagged, labeled and took a picture of EVERYTHING, and that was the biggest help by far. While you are taking things apart you think "of course I'll remember" but after enough time you will need the help.
I could fill a single garage alone with seats,panels,counsel,bumpers,brackets,boxes of smaller stuff like trim,wipers, you get the idea.
As I started the car, and you mentioned doing a '70 clone, I too decided to alter my car as well. This was going to help me in a couple of ways. 1, I went with relacement front fenders, valances, deck lid - this not only saved me a LOT of bodywork, but also 2 insured I had "clean" steel and didn't have to worry about rust being eliminated completey from those panels.
I much like 99% of everyone on this board has done some kind of "body repair", but this is truly a whole new level to do a car and not get sea sick looking at the waves. The #1 biggest saving grace for me was I had a friend who works for a PPG dealer and also does a lot of bodywork for hobby that was my guide. He advised me on what to treat the bare metal with to ensure a rust free base, what type of 2 part epoxy primer to use, and what body filler and finaly skim coat to use. And after that was all said and done, would come over, look at the car and based on my color choice would tell me on what would show up, what had to be re-done and what was OK.
Knowing that this was still not enough I was very fortunate to have the same friend dirrect me to a painter. I was also told many painters will not be happy to just paint a car, as if there is a problem that occurs to bad body prep, sometimes the customer will come back and hard time the painter. I was lucky enough to find a painter who after sitting down with him a and his shop manager and discussing what prep was done, he took the car, did another high build primer coat, final sand, dissasemble the car, paint the parts, reasemble, and buff the car. I also let him know to make my car "filler" work for a better rate, as the real money for most shops is done with collision work, and If you don't have a dealine can save you a few bucks.

The car turned out great, but it taught me a few things....

This project was VERY expensive - I could never sell the car for what I have in it, and I did 90% of the work.
Some of this is due to the fact that it was my first effort and needed a lot of tools.
I used compressed air for most of this, and thought I had a big compressor, only to find I could still use more.
I bought things like a DA sander, air file, and a gun for the primer was lent to me.
It's kind of a nickel and dime process as well, stuff like new screws, tape, lots of sandpaper in varying grits, man I made a lot of trips to the store.
When the car gets back, and everything looks great, all of the sudden other things that were OK now look like junk.
It's hard to bolt on a dinged faded bumber to a beauty car or faded nasty carpeting being left in a car that is that far apart. I found myself cleaning and painting what I could, but could not bring myself to using a lot of items that now would look like junk on a new car body.

I could go on and on, and if you have any more specific questions I could answer of even pics as I went along I would be happy to share.
My best advice is to find a friend with lots of experience to even just advise you as you go along.

Good luck, keep us up to date!  :2thumbs:
« Last Edit: July 18, 2009 - 08:39:26 AM by BB73Challenger »
Jeff from Cleveland, Ohio

Offline BIGSHCLUNK

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Re: Professional Opinions on Bodywork
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2009 - 09:31:42 AM »
 :2cents: Even tho my car was "done" I'm always doing upgrades. Small things can add up fast!! be prepared!
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Offline quagmire

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Re: Professional Opinions on Bodywork
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2009 - 10:51:59 AM »
Luckily one of our very good family friends does own a body shop, the ONLY reason I don't want him to do it is because he will undercut himself so badly on it.  That is just the way he is with friends, and I would not feel right letting him do that.  I could always ask him for advice, and I'll probably let him do the final paint and sanding.

I also have most of those tools already, so that is a plus.  Anything else I can buy or borrow.  I was thinking about sanding down the underside and then spraying it with an epoxy primer followed by a good chassis paint, and then an undercoating or lizard skin insulation.  I don't know how I feel about those rust encapsulators, I know they work but I feel more comfortable removing the rust rather than covering it up.  Darn OCD!

My biggest concern is how to clean and seal all of the concealed panels in the car.  Like the cowl, inside the frame rails, and all of the other hard to get at inner structures.  What do you guys do?

Also, since I am reinforcing the body as I go for performance would it make sense to cap the frame rails even though they will be in good shape or replaced when done?  Or would it be overkill?