Author Topic: Water borne paint  (Read 5096 times)

Offline farmboy70

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Re: Water borne paint
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2010 - 01:43:53 PM »
This is the EPA RULE concerning smaller shops. This is related to personal and equiptment.
The water borne is part of EPA Area Source rule 40 CFR Part 63 Subpart HHHHHH

All shops go to water borne and must be in compliance by 1-10-2011
Dave




Offline elitecustombody

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Re: Water borne paint
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2010 - 06:13:20 PM »
I believe it went into effect in all of CA today (beginning of the year!) actually, although the date has gone back and forth some due to supply and converting existing operations. I'm pretty sure its been delayed before, not sure if it has been again or not though. I haven't had the pleasure of using it myself yet, but its been used for years now by the car manufacturers, and even longer than that by airlines. I have talked to a few folks that have used it as well as some knowledgeable paint store employees, and its really just a matter of getting used to a new system. Pressures required are different, as is the thickness of the application, the number of coats and drying time. Drying is a little more sensitive to temperature since no active hardener is used, but its not impossible to overcome even for the amateur painting at home. Paint guns with stainless internals are obviously better if you're going to be using it a ton, but older paint guns will work just fine if you flush them with acetone afterward to get rid of the water based stuff so the internals don't corrode or rust.

This is just plain ignorant. There was a huge resistance against the removal of LEAD from paint too. Seems like a no-brainer now don't you think? This isn't something new, paint has been evolving since Henry Ford. There's a reason all the earliest Fords were black, its because nothing else stuck to the car and lasted  :D. Lacquer, acrylic enamel, candies and pearls, enamel without lead, clear coat systems, water based paints, its a long list. All have had their advantages and disadvantages, if you've ever sprayed lacquer you know its an incredibly different process than enamel. And I imagine if you've ever sucked up a lungful of lacquer or acrylic enamel you know that it can't possibly be good for you.  :puke:

Yes, the water based paints will take some time to get used to, and there may even be some color/shade matching issues for a little bit. I'm sure it'll lead to some botched up paint jobs, I'll probably be guilty of a few myself since I have a few to take care of in the near future. But it'll catch up, just like any technology. The paint manufacturers want to sell us paint, they'll figure out a way to get it done.  Adapt and overcome.  :thumbsup:

let me know how that waterborne junk works out for you ,it requires air dryers/blowers,because it takes forever to dry unlike solvent based materials,resulting in more trash. You can't just simply convert in a snap,you have to quit using all the etching primers,epoxy primers,2K primers and use something that you have no idea how well it works and if you can actually warranty all your paint/repair work for lifetime,like you're supposed to.Have all those shops you talked to switched completely over and use only waterborne primers,filler besides the paint? Sales people will sell you anything,and most of them never use products they sell.

Guess what happens to a spot that had a dent repaired with a skim coat of filler? filler is like a sponge and will absorb water,even if the moisture has been dried,it has already caused the corossion process.  If you had a shop,would you like to keep redoing paint problems that were caused buy this new tree-hugger technology?say you blasted your car and government mandates, that you must used only waterborne primer,wouldn't you be be hesitant to use primer that contains more water than filler? what if all that primer cased rust a year down the road and now you have to rip the whole car apart and blast it again,and guess what, you can only use same waterborne junk primer :woo:

I simply refuse to test this technology on customer's cars and stand behind it without knowing how well it holds up.I'm sure you've see plenty of GM and Fords peeling back in late 80's and early 90's,









   
Stefan B

Elite Custom Body = AMD Sheetmetal & Glass at great prices !!


Don't do what's easy, do what's right!!

Offline farmboy70

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Re: Water borne paint
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2010 - 07:18:25 PM »
Since this technology is new to me I was hoping some California members would post as they have been using it for some time in certain areas of the state.
From what I have found out so far the primers aren't a water based product, just some compliant variation of what we use now. Only the base is waterborne. But I may be wrong on this.
The first expense will be fan dryers , new guns, gun cleaners and of course higher product price.
A secondary expense will be better quality air compressor, probably a screw type with refrigerated drying.
Right now I  have more questions than answeres. :dunno:
Dave

Offline elitecustombody

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Re: Water borne paint
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2010 - 08:33:00 PM »
Dave,you're right and I agree with you, as far as I know, shops are only using base, no primers or clears,atleast in Jacksonville Floor
Stefan B

Elite Custom Body = AMD Sheetmetal & Glass at great prices !!


Don't do what's easy, do what's right!!

Offline farmboy70

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Re: Water borne paint
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2010 - 08:39:13 PM »
Some other questions would be how well will this work in a humid enviroment, summers here aren't Florida but  can be really sticky.
A screw compressor with dryer is not cheap.
Too much expense may have small shops thinking if it is really worth the investment or to just hang it up.
Dave

Offline jwalk

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Re: Water borne paint
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2010 - 07:28:29 PM »
do like the guys in hot rod mag, roll on your paint with a 9' roller.

Offline Grancoupe

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Re: Water borne paint
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2010 - 06:22:55 PM »
Aside from the investment the shops will have to endure, the water born products are actually very good. Due to unfortunate circumstances having parked the car outdoors in NY for 3 years caused a number of areas to pop. i don't blame this on the paint. the body guy's work left something to be desired. I am in the process of stripping areas of the car and the doors were two of them. Getting through that paint was almost impossible. Using aircraft stripper. I lost more of my lungs that that paint. I ended up using a heat gun and it was the old paint the body guy never removed that was what lifted from the door panels.
So this stuff it tough. Trust me from personal experience. Just have to learn how to use it.