hard starting when hot

Author Topic: hard starting when hot  (Read 2711 times)

Offline MoparMatt383

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hard starting when hot
« on: October 15, 2004 - 09:28:42 AM »
I have a 71 challenger with a 67 383 in it and here is my problem.  When the car is cold the engine cranks fine and the battery seems like it has plenty of life in it.  If I turn the car off after it has been running and the engine has warmed up and I have been driving around for awhile the problem starts.  When I go to start it again it will do a few real slow cranks and then it might start or it might not because the battery seems to go dead.  My friend says it might be that the distributor is too far advanced.  Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Matt
Too many projects and nothing gets done.




Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: hard starting when hot
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2004 - 11:45:01 AM »
that will happen when the dist is too far advanced , often pumpuing a bit of fuel in as it cranks will stop it cranking hard or turn the dist back a little
« Last Edit: October 16, 2004 - 02:06:00 PM by Chryco Psycho »

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Offline MoparMatt383

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Re: hard starting when hot
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2004 - 04:42:44 PM »
Thanks for the info.  I'll go out and retard the dist once it quits raining here.  I'll let you know what happens.

Matt
Too many projects and nothing gets done.

Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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Re: hard starting when hot
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2004 - 04:51:27 PM »
Just a thought, but if you have headers on the car, the starter might be over heating. That would cause it to turn slow as if the battery were at fault.

  Mike

Mike

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Offline Autophile

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Re: hard starting when hot
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2004 - 04:51:44 PM »
Matt,

I've been dealing with this same problem for several years now on my 71 440 Cuda. My symptoms are exactly the same as you described. It started to happen on my car after it sat for a couple of years. Once I saw that I had this problem, I switched over to a high output starter. This didn't help. Next I installed a new Optima battery. No change. My timing is locked at 34º (same as it was before the problem), and I've been retarding the timing on startup using an MSD retard box. Note: Before this problem I never had to retard the timing on startup (10:1 compression). So, the startup retard has a minor positive effect, but does not fix the problem.

I talked to a friend of mine who is a very competent mechanic, and he said that there is a voltage drop occurring somewhere in the starter power supply (i.e., the battery cables). He said you can determine where the voltage drop is occurring by measuring the voltage across the cable connections (battery-to-ground, battery-to-starter, engine ground-to-frame) when the engine is warm, and the starter is cycled. Have a person help you, he can run the starter, and you can connect a voltmeter across the cable connect points and measure the voltage. If there is a difference in voltage of something greater than, say, 0.2 volts, then you either have a bad cable or a bad ground/connection. You can narrow down the location of the problem by putting the voltmeter wire on the battery post for one test, then on only the cable attached to the post for the next test. This would check the cable-to-post connection.

Anyway, look at your battery cables for corrosion, cracks, loose connections, etc. This might be a quick fix if you see something obvious.

I haven't had time to track down a buddy to help me with testing my battery cables, but I think I am going to go ahead and install new cables this weekend anyway. I hope it works!  :)

Good luck with your diagnosis, and please post your solution as it comes to you. I'll post the result of my cable swap as well.

Jason
1971 Cuda, black/black, 419 cu. in. 3G Hemi with twin turbos (build in progress), AlterKtion, Wilwood 12.19" disks, billet Rallye wheels

Offline Robb

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Re: hard starting when hot
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2004 - 05:23:17 PM »
Just a thought, but if you have headers on the car, the starter might be over heating. That would cause it to turn slow as if the battery were at fault.

  Mike


I agree this seems most likely given the description.

70 Challenger SE  (440 SIX PACK / Keisler 5 speed, R/T SE replication)       68 Sport Satellite Convertible 383 Super Commando / 727  Survivor

2002 Trans AM WS6 convertible:  DD
1999 4Runner 4x4:  lifted-locked-armored  expedition vehicle
1990 Jeep XJ 4x4:  Front Dana 60, GM-14bolt rear, 3 link, 4link, 5.38 detroits, beadlocked 40's, stretched to 110" wb  Rock Crawler

Offline MoparMatt383

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Re: hard starting when hot
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2004 - 08:19:51 PM »
In reply to Mekrunner I do not have hedders I still have the stock manifolds.  Its still raining here so I have yet to get out to my car.  I'll get back to you guys soon.

Matt
Too many projects and nothing gets done.

Offline Autophile

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Success
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2004 - 09:20:16 PM »
Matt, I just finished swapping out my cables, and what a HUGE difference! I found a bad ground connection while I was working, which I am confident was the problem. Now my starter zings to life, and my car seems to have much better idle as well. I haven't test driven it yet, but by the reaction I've seen so far, I am sure it is fixed. My old cables were 2 gauge, and my new ones are 2/0 gauge (1/2" vs 11/16" diameter difference). Check your cable connections!

Jason
1971 Cuda, black/black, 419 cu. in. 3G Hemi with twin turbos (build in progress), AlterKtion, Wilwood 12.19" disks, billet Rallye wheels

Offline Robb

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Re: hard starting when hot
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2004 - 09:35:43 PM »
In reply to Mekrunner I do not have hedders I still have the stock manifolds.  Its still raining here so I have yet to get out to my car.  I'll get back to you guys soon.

Matt

Im still suspicious that its a bad starter.   Good luck !

70 Challenger SE  (440 SIX PACK / Keisler 5 speed, R/T SE replication)       68 Sport Satellite Convertible 383 Super Commando / 727  Survivor

2002 Trans AM WS6 convertible:  DD
1999 4Runner 4x4:  lifted-locked-armored  expedition vehicle
1990 Jeep XJ 4x4:  Front Dana 60, GM-14bolt rear, 3 link, 4link, 5.38 detroits, beadlocked 40's, stretched to 110" wb  Rock Crawler

Offline MoparMatt383

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Re: hard starting when hot
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2004 - 12:05:29 PM »
I checked the timing and it was all the way retarded so I advanced it to 12 degrees before TDC as according to an old motors book.  I drove around for awhile, got gas, then the car started up just fine so I think the problem is solved.  I only started it once because after I got gas the tank seemed to have sprung a major leek.  So after I get the gas tank straitened out I'll be driving it around more and can really see if the starter problem is solved.  Thanks for the help guys.

Matt
Too many projects and nothing gets done.