Benchmark performance

[Tonefiend]

I have been thinking about how far to take my challenger.  I figure the best way to represent vintage muscle would be to have the performance level to school your everyday Corvettes, Mustang GTs, et al.

So what kind of performance levels are we talking about to make an E body compete above the level as your everyday hot car?  To preserve the dignity of our classis E bodies, I would like to know my car has what it takes to beat almost any joker with an off the showroom floor car! 

[FJ5_440]

Check out the Protouring forums to see all sorts of cars with just what you are talking about.  You have to wade through a sea of 67-69 Camaros, but there are a good number of Mopars there too.

Do yourself a favor and test drive a new Corvette.  It is a ridiculously capable car for the money.  I'm not saying that an old Challenger can't be modified to do the same things.  There are a handful out there that have been made to do just that.  The only problem is that they are mostly a new sports car chassis and suspension with old school sheetmetal.  I would love to have a car like that, but I don't have that kind of time and money.

Aiming for the overall performance levels of a new Challenger, Camaro SS or Mustang GT is reasonable if you have the cash to put alot of "XV, or Hotchkis type" parts on the car.
Be prepared though, doing a serious build like these can take piles of cash or piles of time and effort or maybe both.  I have owned new performance cars and there is almost nothing that they aren't better at than my old cars except "looking timelessly cool".
Well chosen bolt on modifications can be done on a budget and can easily equal the performance of modern sport sedans.  After going down this road myself, I stopped expecting these old monsters to be what they aren't and focused on improving their capabilities while keeping their character and style.
 

[D70challenger]

Im curious about this as well, I wanted to know what i could do to make my Chally (when its up and running) capable to be a fast car and keep up with modern muscle cars. I wasnt sure what kind of performance options there are since there arent flash tunes or anythings for these motors.

[NoMope Greg]

In addition to the suspension mods FJ5 mentioned, there's also the engines and transmissions to consider.  Not that an old-school engine can't be made to perform like new iron - quite obviously they can - but not with near the same streetability or fuel economy without also investing in big money modifications.  In planning a build, expect big $$ in a roller cam, aluminum heads, low-friction coatings, port fuel injection with all the attendant sensors and computers and high dollar machine work.  Add in a modern transmission and the $$ start getting bigger. 

The other thing about the old cars (I was about to write "our old cars" before I remembered I don't have one right now  ) is that the bodies aren't anywhere near as stiff as modern vehicles.  Thanks to CAD, finite element analysis and advances in manufacturing that simply wasn't around back when, the new vehicles are so much more solid than the old ones.  It's a very expensive proposition to get an old car to the standards of a new one.  The leaps in quality that tend to happen every ten years alone is pretty amazing.

[Tonefiend]

Thanks for the input.  I don't plan on making the Challenger handle as well as the mini cooper.  I am not overly concerned about handling beyond a suspension rebuild.

When people ask me "Is it fast"  I would like to be able to say yes!  Which means to me it can beat most stockers off the line. 

My question would be if say 400 hp and a stock 3 speed would move the car as well as the 400 hp in my buddys corvette does, or would one need to exceed those levels.

[Aussie Challenger]

Thanks for the input.  I don't plan on making the Challenger handle as well as the mini cooper.  I am not overly concerned about handling beyond a suspension rebuild.

When people ask me "Is it fast"  I would like to be able to say yes!  Which means to me it can beat most stockers off the line. 

My question would be if say 400 hp and a stock 3 speed would move the car as well as the 400 hp in my buddys corvette does, or would one need to exceed those levels.

The simple answer to the last part is a 400HP Challenger won't beat a 400HP corvette because of the later technology (engine & suspension), however as mentioned careful selection of components will give them a fright. A BB would develop more torque than the later motors and that would be an advantage. If you were to up the HP with the right components, look out.   

[Road_Runner]

After going down this road myself, I stopped expecting these old monsters to be what they aren't and focused on improving their capabilities while keeping their character and style.
 

This is exactly what I've been thinking about my Barracuda.  The Roadrunner is going to be your typical straight line monster so HP is king, but I wanted something different for the 'Cuda, the coolness of a timeless old pony car that can be driven around town instead of some boring econobox or my pickup.  That's why I'm fighting my inclinations to build a 'hot' motor for it, just good head snapping power like the old days (with a few hidden improvements hidden inside).

Later, Jim

[FJ5_440]

I certainly didn't mean to dissuade you from modifying your car to handle better.  I just wanted you to know that there is a point of diminishing return between decent bolt on parts and completely reengineering the car.  You can read some of the things I did to improve my car here:
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=68667.0

My intent was to keep the car stock looking but handle as well as a modern sedan.  It rides and handles so much better than stock that it surprised me.  It won't get close to a modern sports car on a track (unless there is a really long straight), but is enjoyable to drive any time there is no snow or salt on the roads, and even my wife will grab the keys once in a while.

[Tonefiend]

I really don't care much about handling outside of what a good suspension rebuild with good shocks and bushings will give me.   My goal for the car is to keep it stock, with the exception of the engine. I plan on keeping it stock looking, but massaged internally.   I like the F.A.S.T. thing.  I'll be shooting for 400-450 hp with the 340.  I might use aluminum heads and an edelbrock intake if I don't make it a SIX PAK.  For the trans I will most likely stick with the 904 for now, but swap in a 3-5 speed depending on my funds when the time comes. 

[go-fish]

This is coming from a guy that has sunk alot of money in his "cuda (Alter-k-tion, Tremec 5 speed beefed up by MMR, tri-angulated 4 link, ....)

FOLLOW THE HOTCHKIS FORMULA FOR SPEED !!! Build a 416 out of your 340 and use Hughes Engines ported heads (aluminum heads aint snit if they are just out of the box) because power comes from the valvetrain so that is where you don't want to do the minimum. Stay away from the Six Pack and go with a Edlebrock Super Victor Jr intake and a carb from a shop like The Carb Shoppe. In essence, a basic 4" stroker kit and specialty shop heads and carb.

While I am proud of how well the Alter-K-tion performs (it does very well) that Hotchkis car is set the freak UP! Just do what they did in suspension work and a mean 416", 4 speed with a tall 4th gear (Passon Performance or Brewer?), and 3.55 gears. You'll pretty much take your E-body to the max of what it can do with out going tube chassis road racing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZX7jINa_ho