new McLeod 5-speed manual

[gkring]

http://www.bangshift.com/blog/Bangshift-Approved-The-McLeod-M-800-5-Speed-Transmission.html

From 2009 Sema. Nothing has changed since last year. Still having supplier issues, still looks to be a great product. I think there is a pretty good thread going on at Moparts about the Passon VS mcleod trannies.

[ragtopdodge]

I wouldn't bother.

Passon 5-speed will fit. Maybe more $$$, but less hassles.

[72hemi]

Supposedly according to Mcleod their transmission will be a direct replacement as well with no floor modifications required and the same length as the 833. The only difference according to Mcleod is the output shaft is splined like a turbo 400, but they include a new slip yoke in the price which is suppose to be around $3300 for the Mopar version and the shifter is suppose to be in the stock location. So basically if everything Mcleod says is true, you basically have 2 transmissions that are a direct bolt in replacement for a 4 speed car, requiring 0 modifications, but one is $1000 less because they make Chevy and Ford variations. Now time will tell whether or not the information Mcleod gave me is accurate.

[Tom Quad]

Supposedly according to Mcleod their transmission will be a direct replacement as well with no floor modifications required and the same length as the 833. The only difference according to Mcleod is the output shaft is splined like a turbo 400, but they include a new slip yoke in the price which is suppose to be around $3300 for the Mopar version and the shifter is suppose to be in the stock location. So basically if everything Mcleod says is true, you basically have 2 transmissions that are a direct bolt in replacement for a 4 speed car, requiring 0 modifications, but one is $1000 less because they make Chevy and Ford variations. Now time will tell whether or not the information Mcleod gave me is accurate.

Are we all that stupid to believe Mcleod, well probably because how many others have succumbed to the song of the tremec siren [greek mythology]
Please let's stop being so ignorant about this trans.  It will not fit without major mods because....well golly gee...it's too tall...just like a tremec.

[72hemi]

  Honestly?! While i haven't had the opportunity to take measurements of the Mcleod transmission I have no reason to doubt the information they give me at this point. Judging by the pictures yes it is probably an inch to an inch and a half taller than the new unit from Passons, but is that enough to cause a floor clearance problem, don't know. They claimed that they based their design of this new transmission from the 833 with the intent of being a bolt in replacement. I will hold my reservations of both units until they both go into production and people have experience with the installs. If Mcleod is able to produce a drop in replacement as Passon has claimed (again while everything looks good in the pictures I will hold off passing judgement until I see the proof) and it comes in at the price point they are claiming Passon's is going to be in trouble because the Passon drop in 5 speed will be $1000 more then the competition.

As for the Tremec conversion I have talked to people that have installed them without requiring modification to the floor (other than installing a factory 4 speed hump) and to people that have had to "masage" the tunnel to get it to fit, what causes the discrepancy is anyones guess.

At the end of the day for me it doesn't matter whether or not the Mcleod unit or the Passon unit is a direct bolt in or not, because I am planning on modifying my floor and torsion bar crossmember to install a Viper spec T-56 transmission, that way if something were to happen to the transmission I can just contact Dodge for replacement parts instead of praying that Mcleod or Passon don't ever go out of business, but that is just me, plus the added fact of having 2 overdrive gears is nice. But I am also not concerned about having the shifter in the stock location (although, being an engineer I could design a shifter and locate it in the stock location if I wanted to).

[73Chally]

Not sure where I saw it, but somewhere mentioned that this unit was more for street/strip applications, with a heavier emphasis on the strip?  They said it did not have synchros, which does not make sense, but I can't seem to find where I had read that.

[72hemi]

The guy from Mcleod said it is a street friendly transmission with synchros. He said a lot of rumors got started because a picture of the inside of another transmission with straight cut gears got posted a while back misrepresented as this new transmission.

[73Chally]

That's probably what I saw.  Thanks.

[74 340 4speed]

Just saw the Passon 5 speed.  direct bolt in, no issues, sounds like a winner.

[go-fish]

Keisler is coming out with a new tranny as well. I am inclined to trade in my TKO for one of these. It is basically a Baby T56.

The RS product line comes from the Borg Warner T-45, of which over a quarter million units were sold from 1996-2001 to Ford Mustang GT & Cobra. The T-45 was basically a rollup of the best features of T56 and T5 into one compact design, intended to be used for performance cars. It added one key piece of advanced technology which proved to be its achilles heel - the Double Disconnect Reverse.

The Double Disconnect Reverse (DDR)
The DDR removed the rotating inertia of the reverse triad gears, allowing for less noise, easier shift effort, and less drag. The DDR system employed a simese shift fork design which was to disengage/engage reverse gears simulataneously. The problem came about when they would not deflect and not operate in unison, resulting in gear grind going into reverse. This gear grind was the clutch gear teeth clashing with the synchro sleeve, and it would round the teeth off making it difficult to then get into gear. The shift lever would pop out of gear in reverse, requiring the driver to hold the lever handle in place while backing up. What a pain in the @$$. Warranty claims on the T-45 for the DDR allowed Tremec to sell its 3650 multi-rail trans to Ford, and the 2001-1/2 - 2010 models had the 3650 until it was dropped completely in favor of the Getrag unit found in current 2011 Mustang GT.

Our solution to fixing the DDR was to eliminate it and return to the single disconnect system (like T56, T5). Our chief design engineer and manual transmission guru, D. McCord - who was the principle design engineer of the T56 at Borg Warner back in the late 80s/early 90s - performed all of the design changes to make the Keisler T45R & T45RS robust. We have been selling them since 2007 with great results. We recently added additional testing capabilities to our Test Stand which allowed us to further improve the quality control of these units.

When Borg Warner designed the original gear designs of T5, T56 and T45, it was somewhat of a black art. Now, thanks to advanced analytics and modeling software, the gear designs are improved from the original. Furthermore, use of SAE9310 chrome-nickel-moly alloy steel provides a much stronger product than what was originally used (SAE8620). For example, we test the RS500 and RS600 input shaft to 5,000 LB-FT with no failure! In comparison, the RS400 input tests out around 2,000 before it twists. All testing is done using UL Certified & Calibrated lab equipment. (How many aftermarket transmission companies serving our market have that in their lab?)

We stand behind every RS product with a 3 year blanket warranty.

Hope this helps!

Shafi

At the beginning of the year Keisler is going to do a big press release. These are reportedly fitting in trans tunnels without surgery like the TKO line. For those of us that have a TKO from them already, we can just trade in the TKO box for the RS600. I am not sure of the ancillary parts changes yet.
There are at least two "test mule" transmissions out there getting beat on in hard street use and getting thrashed on a road course or two. No mishaps yet.
I am contemplating giving my Dad my complete TKO kit and getting a new RS600 kit. The TKO kit is great if you don't plan on banging gears from 2nd to 3rd. That's the only problem I've had, although it is a big problem for me. If you have a cruiser and not a hardcore street machine then you're alright with it. Dad will be. Obviously, Keisler has found enough "cruisers" there to make the capital to undertake this new RS endeavor. I am glad for that and it'll make a great Father's Day gift for my Dad.

[IMNCARN82]

    Hmmmmmm...   Thanks for posting go-fish.

[KEISLER]

Considering that the Passon Performance 4 speed OD is $3k ($1900 for the gearset alone to convert your own transmission), 5 speed conversions start at $3500 (and those kits assume you have a 4 speed already), 4 speed OD kits from Keisler start at $4k and gear vendors units are around $2700 I would say the transmission is priced right. It's not $500, but its not a used worn out used transmission, and it's built here in the United States with quality components.


Sorry I didn't get any pictures, there were too many people around it.

72hemi,

Our Keisler RS 5-Speed PerfectFit kits start at only $2295 - including a brand new driveshaft, crossmember, speedo cable, and lots of other parts.  Our RS 5-speed is based off the BorgWarner T45 built in Muncie Indiana.  All of our components including new case, shaft, gearing, etc is Made in USA. 

In Q2/2011, the new maincase will be in production, which will provide even lower profile to eliminate any chance of tunnel mods required with our Keisler Tremec TKO kits.

Here is a link to a thread on this forum on the new RS 5-Speed.

Also, our 4-speed automatic kits are $3795 - not $4K - and like ALL of our other kits, are loaded with many new components including driveshaft, crossmember, etc.  Plus NO CUTTING on the automatic kits either.

Shafi Keisler, Keisler Engineering

[KEISLER]

Oh and it is rated at around 600 ft lbs dynamic torque. It has been tested to 100 ft lbs of static torque.

72hemi,

I think you misquoted them on the static torque.  I guess it is 1000LBFT of static but that seems very low to me.  For example, we test our input shafts on the RS500 and RS600 to over 5,000 LB-FT static torque without failure.

When I questioned McLeod about this product last year, they were very fuzzy about the details - no specs on the metal, the centers distance of main shaft to cluster shaft, etc.  Later I learned their product is a T-5, which makes sense because the main case looks just like a T-5.   A T-5 is only 77mm centers distance, and factory rated at 230LB-FT torque.  Mustang guys run them up to around 300LB-FT or so, but the T-5 will not live at 600LB-FT.  The reason why is the centers distance limits how much torque capacity the transmission gears can load.  Torque calculations on gearing is a science that comes down to centers distance, gear tooth geometry, metallurgy, heat treatment, AGMA class, plus a lot of other factors like shaft bending which is a big problem in the T-5 under high load.  The main shaft and cluster shaft spread apart under load, causing the gear teeth to break.  I am not saying McLeod will have the problems, or that this M800 is based on the T5 with 100% certainty.  But if it is based on the China produced T5 that was rumored they got access to, it will likely be a let down because a T5 simply has not been proven to handle high torque loads - say 500LB-FT and above - with any amount of long term durability.  Who cares if a transmission can handle 600LBFT torque for 30 min total run time before it grenades...

Shafi Keisler