Can't Get My Brakes Right!

[72rtchallenger]

you said you replaced all the flex hoses ,does that include the one on the rear end,,sometimes that one gets over looked

[ashley_j]

I just checked back in. It has been busy for me in May so far and I have not gotten back to the car. However, I did replace all the flexible hose front and back and have a new rear brake lines (tee/hose to each side).

Also, I'm not familiar with the 'Phoenix tool'. 

 

[Strawdawg]

http://www.phoenixsystem.com/products_by_type/brake_bleeders/v12_brake_bleeder.htm

[ashley_j]

Well it has been 2 weeks and replacement of new prop valve with old  valve with never ending bleeding. The only difference is that the brakes are more sensitive. I can feel them engage (feel the force pulling you forward as you slow) immediately but you cannot feel any pedal tension. You say to yourself how can I be slowing if the pedal is this soft? The tension in the pedal only comes about half way down in the travel.   

Plus as soon as I touch the pedal the idiot light comes on (both valves) and will not go off until I tap/pop the pedal. Now, I can still pump the pedal and get a firmer pedal as before but I have tried all the suggestions and a few from local guys and nothing is changing. I though I would run my latest bout through the forum and see if anyone can see anything new in the situation before I give up.

1) Changed the prop valve. (In-Line/New to Old/Original)
Reinstalled the front pads/calipers. (I left out the copper washer on the banjo nuts the first time.  )(Can certain new pads be an issue?) How hard should it be to reinstall the calipers with fluid already in caliper? I could slide them on with no issue. (No Resistance)
2) Tested the front for caliper piston travel while off. (Seemed to have a good grip)
3) Ran almost 1 bottle and a half through the lines to check for good flow.
4) Teflon taped all the treads. (Line fittings and bleeder screws-Front and back)
5) Checked the pedal bushing. (Still in one piece and not worn but how do you know if it is not broken?)
6) I had already bench bled the M/C.
7) Rechecked the rear shoe adjustment by the book/manual. (Bendix Shoes)
10+ rounds of bleeding. 

I think that's all but either way I have gone through all the suggestions a couple of times and this is where I am. I will have to probably go to a professional brake shop after this round of posts.   

Any suggestions of shops that might be available in the middle Tennessee area or any chains that can work on vintage machines?

 

[ShelbyDogg]

Plus as soon as I touch the pedal the idiot light comes on (both valves) and will not go off until I tap/pop the pedal. have to probably go to a

I think your back brakes aren't adjusted right. Your light shouldn't be turning on unless you have either the front or rear not building pressure to keep the brake switch centered and keep the light off.    Does your master cylinder contain a residual pressure valve for the rear line?  The only real way to check would be to pull off the cone under the brake line at the master cylinder. There should be a ball and spring under it to hold a couple of pounds of pressure in the rear line, which is overcome by the springs pulling on the brake shoes.

Another thing to try is eliminating the rear brakes to see if you have good pressure to the front.

Get a short piece of brake line with fittings on both ends, bend it into a circular shape and connect both sides of the "T" fitting to itself. This eliminates both rear wheel cylinders and you can check you pedal feel. I bet it feels normal.     OR crank your rear brake adjusters all the way tight then check for pedal feel.  BUT you have to know how to release the lock and back odd the adjuster after testing.

[Bullitt-]

Rob, would applying the parking brake not accomplish the same thing for eliminating the rear brake adjustment, one of those things I think know but don't know why. 

[ShelbyDogg]

Rob, would applying the parking brake not accomplish the same thing for eliminating the rear brake adjustment, one of those things I think know but don't know why.

Wade,

I think it might help a little but the parking brake still expands the pads at the top too, just like the hydraulics.  If your brakes aren't adjusted far enough, the parking brake doesn't work either.

He is just having too much trouble with these brakes and shoulld have had it fixed by now. If he can't easily solve a brake problem, and it is beyond his capabilitieshe should take it to a pro before his brakes fail while driving it.

Goody's brakes went out on him early on and his car crashed into another vehicle. Luckily no one was hurt.

[ashley_j]

You are right. It should not be this difficult.

The master cylinder is a brand new Bendix and I would think if anyone could have a correct M/C it would be Bendix. However, I am going to check it anyway. First I will try the rear shoe test. I had considered the "crank your rear brake adjusters all the way tight" test but just did  not try it.
I have never had this much trouble, ever, with brakes. I guess I have been lucky. I have done brakes from a '64 Barracuda to a '74 Duster with many in between. That is why I am so dumbfounded by this dilemma.

Thanks for the info.
Jeff

 

[Chryco Psycho]

are the front calipers the correct ones with the bleed screw on the top ?

[ashley_j]

Yes and they seem to grip fine.

 

[Strawdawg]

I would not bet on the MC being good, new, or not

[Milkmann]

I'm a little late to the party, and I'm not an SAE mechanic.

When I get rebuilt master cylinders, the instructions that come in the box claim that the 'new' unit must be bench bled or it can be ruined. My brake-repair life got much better after I invested $40 in a vacuum bleeder, remove the bleeder screws at the wheel and smear the threads with grease to keep from sucking air.

I do not have experience with an E-body proportioning valve, if it was me I'd get another M/C, bench bleed it properly, and vac bleed it one wheel at a time, longest line first.

So far what you've been doing hasn't been working, start over from the beginning and go one step at a time.  Most of the time, the stuff that drives me nuts ends up to be something simple that I inexplicably overlooked. (I can't find the Homer Simpson D'oh headslap emoticon)