Starter mystery

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    Author Topic: Starter mystery  (Read 1235 times)

    Offline moparmaniac59

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    Starter mystery
    « on: July 23, 2011 - 10:20:02 AM »
    Well,
    I've got a real mystery on my hands. I have now broken 3 starters in a row. These are the high torque mini starters. It's for my stroked 440 (543) bolted up to a torqueflite 727 automatic. I can attribute the first one to a back-fire while cranking, but can't say with proof positive that the back-fire caused it to break, but that was what I figured. The second two are a real mystery.  :clueless: I have an MSD digital (I think a 7AL) that has a start retard circuit that should make things easier on the starter. I'm running 11:1 compression. I've been told it's an alignment problem, but there is NO apparent issues with alignment as it fits right in like any other starter I've installed; fits flush to the bell housing, no spaces, no cocking. They seem to last maybe a month then they just spin & don't engage as the snout (or nose end) of the starter is broken off. I've used several different brands, but they are basically the same configuration. I have absolutely no clue as to what to do now??  :dunno: :1zhelp: I am going to try and see if I can fit a standard size starter back in it. I've got Doug's headers, so I'm not sure if I can get a standard size starter in the space. Anybody have this happen?? ANY ideas as to what may be the cause?? I am totally baffled and also OVER it!!!  :swear: I know the standard starter has a little more beef for the nose end, but it shouldn't be doing this!!

                                                                                 Matt B.
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    Offline moparmaniac59

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    Re: Starter mystery
    « Reply #1 on: July 23, 2011 - 10:50:46 AM »
    Anybody familiar with this type of starter?? I am wondering if it would work for my application?? It's a totally different design as it has no snout that mates to the bell housing. It's supposed to be for race/modified type applications. Here's the Ebay motors link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/XS-Torque-Starter-200-ft-lb-Chrome-1965-1987-Mopar-/330576053971?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3ADodge%7CModel%3AChallenger%7CYear%3A1971&hash=item4cf7de46d3


                                                                 Matt B.
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    Offline 72rtchallenger

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    Re: Starter mystery
    « Reply #2 on: July 23, 2011 - 01:01:02 PM »
    I had that problem on one motor, it was build nice with a few upgrades and never could get it to stop doing it,I always thought it was because of the oversize cam and not getting the timing tuned in just right, but still unsure of the cause.(went thru about 5 stock starters in that time)
    it finally quit doing it after a year or so of driving ,,its still running today in my truck
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    Offline OUTLAW

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    Re: Starter mystery
    « Reply #3 on: July 23, 2011 - 04:03:33 PM »
    check your FLEXPLATE really close as I have seen this with cracked and bent flexplates . Its really hard to spot sometimes
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    Offline moparmaniac59

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    Re: Starter mystery
    « Reply #4 on: July 24, 2011 - 10:58:29 AM »
    That's interesting Jason. I do have the 6AL. I think I'll contact MSD and see if I can have it looked at/changed. I looked at the starter gear and it looks like it is engaging with good tooth contact, but i also know that some mini starters are "one size fits all" and may not be the correct factory tooth count. I also know a cheap flexplate can have a problem if the centering hole in the middle is mismachined or slightly oversized causing an out of round condition, but I do have heavy duty B & M flexplate and had no issues with it when I first put the motor in. And I've even heard that a lot of those mini starters don’t have return/resistance springs to keep the starter gear in its retracted position. But after looking at all the issues, the most likely is what you just said Jason and it makes sense, so i think I'll go in that direction, but will also give the flexplate a real good look-see when I take this THIRD starter out!! Thanks bro. Hope that A-body is burning up the track!!  :burnout:

                                                                              Matt B.
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    Offline ShelbyDogg

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    Re: Starter mystery
    « Reply #5 on: July 27, 2011 - 11:42:33 AM »
    I agree that your advanced timing could be breaking your starters!  I used to have to start cranking then hit my ignition switch after the revs started. With your retarded start function, it sounds like they have you covered if the box is working correctly.

    One thing to check. Are you getting extra sparks where you shouldn't be? Tach jumping around? Strange rough idle?
    Try switching your magnetic pickup wires. If your MSD wants to trigger on the wrong rising or falling edge, you are getting an extra pulse when your wires are reversed. That extra pulse means an extra spark. An extra spark at the time a piston is coming up means a broken starter bendix or broken teeth.

    After switching the wires, set the timing before you start the car. It will be off.
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    Offline moparmaniac59

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    Re: Starter mystery
    « Reply #6 on: September 10, 2011 - 05:42:18 PM »
    Well,

    Problem solved. I took out the old starter and as I suspected the nose was sheared right off like the other 3 or 4 mini starters before it. I put in a decent Powermaster high torque mini starter. I took out the MSD Digital 6-Plus ignition box (PN 6520) and turned off the start retard circuit (it's bolted up under my battery tray). I mistakenly said previously that I had the 6AL MSD box. I don't know what I was thinking; a 20 degree drop out in timing is way too much retard. This has been the problem all along. Nothing wrong with the MSD box, it's doing what it's supposed to do although I have had them go bad, this is a nice box with a lot of features (good for racing applications). I had originally purchased the box for a race car I was building, switched it over to the Challenger and never changed the settings. Well it cost me 4 starters, but no problems now, no kick-back. A much smoother start!! Thanks for the tip there Jason I owe you a beer!  :cheers:  I wouldn't have thought to look at the programming on my MSD box. So hopefully no more starters for a while!!  :woo: :clapping:

                                                                                   Matt B.
    « Last Edit: September 10, 2011 - 05:45:48 PM by moparmaniac59 »
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