Water/Methanol injection

[BB73Challenger]

So someone had brought up the point of a water/methanol misting or injecting used in naturally aspirated motors running on the verge of too much squeeze on pump gas... I won't get into the details of the workings, but wondered, why is this not done more often for our hobby?

The company name to come up was Snow Performance, with not just "boosted" engines or diesels seeing the benefit of this add on.

Is this because once you run out of the water or water/meth mix you are stuck if you choose an agressive tune?

Is there another reason why NOT to consider?

The kit for "muscle cars" can use manifold vacuum to determine amount of delivery, is this not a precise enough system?

While 550 for the kit is not cheap, compared to 8 bucks a gallon for the hi-po stuff it could pay for itself quickly.

Last concern I can think of, methanol over 30% I read was VERY flammable... while we don't live forever I don't want to be toast... any concern there as well?

The 500 has been running well, but the engine LOVES even more advance and makes me wonder about alternate tunings ( According to my wife I can't leave well enough alone, she thinks the car is already too fast... I just can't convince her that there is no such thing )

It's getting cold out, and while the Challenger has been put down for a winters sleep my mind has free time to wander! 

Thanks in advance!!

[Chryco Psycho]

well the best solution is to run the lowest freeze temp windshield washer fluid , Snow has a great product & it will definatly increase the octane / decrease ping !  Tuning using vacuum drop should work , the old Holley system I had used a throttle switch in conjunction with vacuum . Easy to get more washer fluid if you get low on fluid .
 is the engine pinging now or pinging with more advance ?
 the other alternative is to add a couple gallons of av gas .
 I have a Snow system for my diesel
 I am glad you are enjoying the end result 

[BB73Challenger]

I have had to dial the advance back & running the heaviest advance springs I have.

It's not a huge amount, and by no means on the street is a "need", and I was running a mix of 110 & 93.
When I can, I do drive her, and do a fair amount of fueling.

This is seeming like an interesting upgrade, even for a daily driver to cut fuel octane & add mileage.

Good to know your have tried the Snow system for your diesel.

The new motor has been nothing short of fantastic - wish the summer could have been a little longer & drier!

Thanks again Neil!!

[brads70]

I had a water injection kit on a chevy 383 stroker that I used all year as a daily driver. It was made by Edelbrock vara-jection I think they called it. Worked like a champ! In winter I would add rubbing alcohol in the water to keep it from freezing.  Spark plugs were always clean!  I could always tell when I was out of water as it started to ping!

[femtnmax]

I am a firm believer in building quench (0.040 inch +/-) into all my engine builds. The engine can run higher compression and still have reduced chance of detonation.

[Cooter]

Why not just run an EGR system?

[Strawdawg]

Egr works only at part throttle and I believe he is referring to full throttle as he mentioned more advance. 

I used to run water on a BBC on the street and it worked well but the kits were cruder in those days.

I run straight methanol in my Buicks as it works better than mixes.

[Chryco Psycho]

I am a firm believer in building quench (0.040 inch +/-) into all my engine builds. The engine can run higher compression and still have reduced chance of detonation.

I also agree with this approach but even with quench enough compression will still ping , I am sure he has quench in this build

[EFI-Cuda]

I never used Water/Methanol injection on a naturally aspirated engine, but I use it on my supercharged 408 and it definitely works with boost.  I made back to back dyno runs with and without the meth and there was a 70HP difference.  Obviously, there's a big difference between a naturally aspirated engine and a force inducted engine, but 70 additional HP with no other changes impressed me. And, I was just using basic windshield washer fluid.

[LAA66]

 Years back I used the windshield washer system along with a vacuum switch and it actually worked pretty well. Until one day when parked on a steep incline (with no check valve) a hydraulic lock occurred.

[brads70]

It's nothing new as WWII fighter planes used water injection. I just think it's gone by the wayside as computer technology and fuel injection has taken over.

[Strawdawg]

I would differ on that thought as computer cars and modern alky kits make it easy to subtract a little gas and replace it with alky so that it works as an octane boost as well as a chemical intercooler.  Modern kits with adjustable/progressive flow kits work like a charm.

It is more widely used today than ever and not just on FA cars altho that is what I use it for.  I have run as much as 30 psi of boost whereas I can only run 15 on 91-92 octane...(routinely, I run 25-26)