Cracked the Code!!! How to Make 5.7L and 5 Speed Auto from LX Work

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    Author Topic: Cracked the Code!!! How to Make 5.7L and 5 Speed Auto from LX Work  (Read 23210 times)

    Offline delt127

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    Cracked the Code!!! How to Make 5.7L and 5 Speed Auto from LX Work
    « on: February 12, 2008 - 05:25:47 PM »
    My name is Sean Sutherland and I am stationed in Germany with the Air Force.  I am finally heading back to the United States after being overseas for the last 7 ½ years.  My 73 challenger is currently in Illinois being “restomodified” by a very nice gentleman who does excellent work.  Back in October 2005 I purchased an engine/transmission combo that only had 76 miles on it.  Only after my guy got the whole thing into the car did I learn there were issues with getting the 5 speed autostick to work. 

    Since it was getting down to crunch time, I decided to burn the midnight oil and hit the internet and the phones hard.  And it has paid off.  I believe I've found the answer a lot of guys are looking for.  I haven't tested it yet, as I just finished verifying the last piece of information yesterday.  So without further ado, here you go...

    FACTS:
    1.  2005 5.7L Hemi from a 300C
    2.  5 speed auto transmission (W5A580/NAG1/722.6) from a 300C
    3.  No modifications made to either engine or transmission (nor do I have any plans)

    REQUIRED ACTIONS:
    1.  Buy 2003, 2004 or 2005 engine computer from a 5.7L truck (Ram or Durango) with a manual trans from a junk yard
    2.  Send engine computer to B&G Specialists (http://bgspecialists.com/index.html) to reprogram for 5.7L passenger car specs (or whatever setup you have)…but keeping the manual transmission information!
    3.  Purchase automatic transmission controller from Powertrain Control Solutions (PCS) (http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/content-4.html)...specify that you need a W5A580/NAG1/722.6 controller and have a engine computer from a truck w/ a manual transmission
    4.  Purchase driveshaft speed sensor kit (required for transmission computer and guages) from PCS (http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/download/accdoc/Speed%20Sensor.pdf).  This is the only way to get speed data to the transmission computer.
    5.  Purchase transmission wiring harness from PCS
    6.  Purchase 5.7L engine harness if necessary.  Options include:
         a.  S&P (http://www.hotrodlane.cc/08%20catalog/08onlinecatalogMAIN.html)
         b.  Mopar Performance (http://www.mopartsracing.com/parts/57hemi.html)
         c.   XV Motorsports (http://www.xvmotorsports.com/)
    7.  In this setup, the engine computer and the transmission computer will operate independently of each other (i.e. they will not talk to each other).

    Doesn't seem that difficult does it?  I hope not.  I will keep you all posted in my adventures and I welcome any questions/comments.

    Sean
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    Offline Katfish

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    Re: Cracked the Code!!! How to Make 5.7L and 5 Speed Auto from LX Work
    « Reply #1 on: February 12, 2008 - 05:43:22 PM »
    Sounds like you did do a lot of research.  Interested to hear your results.  Please post back.
    Glad you're coming home.
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    Offline conv340

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    Re: Cracked the Code!!! How to Make 5.7L and 5 Speed Auto from LX Work
    « Reply #2 on: February 13, 2008 - 12:34:44 AM »
    That very good news We knew PCS was close. It sounds like its a go. Did they mention if the harness was done and any news on shifters. ( last I heard they were missing connectors. The other concern I had was, I had heard there was some still some need to refine the shift points. Did it sound like they had a solid "plug and play" program for the A580?  :dunno:
    This is going to force me to make a hard decision on keeping the auto-stick or installing a manual on Twisted Fish  :clueless:
    Here is a copy of an email between another friend and I and the PCS response.
    Quote
    On 19/12/2007, Bob Brink <Brink@pacbell.net> wrote:
    As of right now the A580 is still sitting in the car. After the Holidays Its doomed I think, I keep hoping for a break though. I have the manuals and that is what scared me the amount of info that is coming from other computer on the can buss... But if PCS comes though It is still a remote possibility. I have the factory harness for connectors and such so fabing a harness would be ok. The auto stick shifter is also a problem with drive shaft clearance.
     
    Hi. Here's reply I got from PCS. Doesn't sound too bad. Skip shifting is reference to my earlier question regarding 545RFE and disabling weak 2nd prime and 4th gears (it's possible with PCS controller).
     
    SRT-8 version of W5A580 appears to be slightly different than one used with 5.7L and V6 models. Torque converter is different, but also tailshaft flange as it's four bolts on SRT-8 vs. three bolts on smaller engine versions. Inside they're all supposed to be same 580 Nm torque spec version. There's also higher spec versions from Mercedes, top-end seems to be W5A1000 for 1000 Nm used with twin-turbo V12 engines.
     
    Lack of slip yoke was concern for guys on Big Block Dart forum while we were discussing transmission options. There's company called Drive shaft Shop that makes one piece driveshafts for new mustangs that also have flange on transmission rather than slip yoke.   
    Regards,
    Johan

    ---------- Forwarded message ----------
    From: Russ Turner <russ@ptcs.us>
    Date: 23 Dec 2007 04:56
    Subject: Re: TCM-2000 with Chrysler 5-45RFE
    To: Johan

    Johan,
        Since your last inquiry about the NAG1 transmission I had the opportunity to calibrate one behind a 6cyl diesel engine. We were also able to source the connectors for the transmission but not for the shifter. There are many different styles of range sensors on the shifters so you will have to source your own connector for it. We have a calibration that you can use to get started. The shift point will obviously be off, but its a start. The shifting on the NAG1 is different but not too difficult to figure out. You can't do skip shifting so the tables have to be setup to prevent it.
     
     
    Russell Turner
    Powertrain Control Solutions LLC
    11139 Air Park Rd. Suite 2
    Ashland, Va. 23005
    804-752-6025 ext. 202
    Russ@ptcs.us
    Note that part of that was about the 545rfe not the NAG-1 ( A_580 )
    Keep us informed of any updates and any thoughts It sound positive to me.  :ylsuper:
    « Last Edit: February 13, 2008 - 12:36:25 AM by conv340 »
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    Two models, Two makes, One year, One body.

    Offline thedodgeboys

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    Re: Cracked the Code!!! How to Make 5.7L and 5 Speed Auto from LX Work
    « Reply #3 on: February 20, 2008 - 08:58:39 PM »
    That would be sweet .............

    any news?  :smokin:
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    70 6.1 HEMI 6-speed Drop Top...

    Offline lfpilot67

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    Re: Cracked the Code!!! How to Make 5.7L and 5 Speed Auto from LX Work
    « Reply #4 on: February 28, 2008 - 01:15:33 PM »
    Am is the process of making a like engine/trans swap in my 67 coronet. I am in hope of taking the 5.7 and w5a580 with the factory wiring, sensors, shifter, accelerator petal & brake assembly and direct install into the car. I realize that all the sensors will have to be working and the factory computers receiving the same information as if it were in the donor car. I am in search of any insight and or experiences with this particular swap. All of the swaps that I have read about are trying to circumvent, fool or do away with what Mother Mopar intended. I like very much the way it works in the 300 and Charger and will continue to research ways this can be accomplished. Good luck Sean with your project and Thank you for your service to us and this great country. Randy
    « Last Edit: February 29, 2008 - 12:57:22 PM by lfpilot67 »
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    Offline conv340

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    Re: Cracked the Code!!! How to Make 5.7L and 5 Speed Auto from LX Work
    « Reply #5 on: March 02, 2008 - 11:28:46 AM »
    Quote
    I am in hope of taking the 5.7 and w5a580 with the factory wiring
    I wish you the best of luck! That was my goal as well but with a SRT-8 package. There are some VERY large problems to over come. The reason every one is doing a work around is the impossibility of using the factory setup with this trans.  :eek4: Ive spent a great deal of time and research on this so far. Heres the short version.
    The trans is the biggest problem.
    1. There isn't a speed sensor in the trans
    2. There isn't a range sensor in the trans
    3. The trans computer is separate from the engine and communicates on the can bus.
    4. The shifter communicates on the can bus ( No direct wiring) the range sensor is in the shifter.
    5. The trans has no slip yoke for the drive shaft. ( one off machine work to make a adapter and a custom drive shaft with a in-line slip yoke required! )
    6. Fitment issues, The front of the trans is larger and hits the tunnel, the shifter is HUGE and wont fit in the console, and the tranny is shorter. A large amount of fabing is required. But you expect that!
    The problem with factory wiring is you can't get the can bus to boot with out all the computers it errors. using all the computers isn't an option there are way to many and you have no way to make them work. an example. You need the ABS computer to get the speed sensor info from the for wheels. Unless you want to try an make a working traction control system thats not going to happen. You also  need the dash computer and gauges and steering column. I spent a lot of time on the phone and going over factory manuals before giving up on this.  :crying:

    A option if you want the factory feel is use the 5.7 and trans from a truck. they use a 545rfe trans and a common computer to run the engine and trans. ( there's some year limitations to Check on ) S&P has a harness and reprogrammed computer to make that swap work. Yes you still need to reprogram the computer to get rid of the stuff you cant use like the ignition key with a chip in it. The 545 is still a 5 speed but no auto stick, and it's a truck trans so the gear spread is different. They also never put one against a 6.1L
    I'm by no means trying to discourage you. When I started there was nothing anyone could tell me. As the market develops more and more solutions will be developed. Good luck on your project. Just be aware of the hurtles. 
    heres a few pics of the tunnel mods i did.
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    Offline conv340

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    Re: Cracked the Code!!! How to Make 5.7L and 5 Speed Auto from LX Work
    « Reply #6 on: April 14, 2008 - 12:38:41 AM »
    Ok I'm committed. I was fairly sure that I would give up and switch to a stick. ( not a bad thing.) For some reason I wanted to use the SRT-8 trans.
    I spent a lot of time with Russel, of PCS on the phone, talking about what works and what doesn't and decided to give it a try.
    I ordered the trans computer and harness. A note on that He said that there are a limited number of harness plugs for this trans and he doesn't expect to get more. So if your interested you might want to buy soon.  :dunno:
    I decided to use a FAST engine computer one big benny is it used the same can protocols. That solves the problem of TPS, engine RPM and engine load. you can just plug the two computers together and they will share the info! If you use a Mopar computer or a factory computer you will still need to figure this out!  :clueless:.
    I also got my custom drive shaft in and it fits. The cool thing is the slip yoke is the right diameter to use the spreed sensor that PCS sells. (the rear yoke isn't) So that solves another problem.
    I still need to figure out the shifter range sensor and the auto stick.
    One other thing to consider I want a indicator on the dash to tell what gear its in. With the paddle shifter you don't have any way to telling where you are and with 5 speeds...
    I'll post more as it develops. Has any one else actually bought a controller yet? or any other work with this trans?
    « Last Edit: April 14, 2008 - 12:41:20 AM by conv340 »
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    Offline 4dr4ever

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    Re: Cracked the Code!!! How to Make 5.7L and 5 Speed Auto from LX Work
    « Reply #7 on: February 27, 2012 - 03:48:55 AM »
    Has anyone got some good pictures of how to get this transmission to work? I just bought one to put in behind my 5.7 in my 63 belvedere.
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