3.23 axle gears with 4 speed, and driving impressions after 2 years.

[femtnmax]

I put in the 3.23 axle gears in my Challenger for better highway mileage.   After 2 years of driving, I would have to say I should have gone with 3.55 axle gears and an overdrive transmission.  The 3.23 gears need just the right cam for low speed surge free street driving; and when backing up the speed of the car is too quick for my liking, even at engine idle.  For now the cam is a 215* @.05 lift duration that is surge free when turning corners in 2nd gear. I had a 218*@.05 cam but the car bucked alot when slowing down at corners.  The 3.55 gears would allow for a larger cam and still have good street manners.  More performance cam choices would be nice.
Another note is the 4 speed gear ratios are so close together and the 360 V8 makes enough torque that all the gears are not really necessary even for moderate street performance driving.
I can't say I'll change anything as I have too much $$ invested in the current set up.  Just thought I'd post my personal observations.

[brads70]

What are your tires sizes? I ask as that makes a difference with gear ratio.

Great info for people chosing what ratio to run.

[femtnmax]

What are your tires sizes? I ask as that makes a difference with gear ratio.

Brad - thanks for catching the tire size.

Tires are 235/60R15 Mickey Thompson Sportsman S/T.  They have been real good tires so far.

[LAA66]

  Thanks for the feedback! Agreed the 3:55's are the best compromise in this particular situation. Probably cruises pretty nice on the freeways with the 3:23's though.

  If using OD unit, I would look at 3:93 or even 4:10's on a small block. I ran 4:56's for a while and they were about right for the the strip, just too much shifting around town.

[brads70]

I'm running 3:55 Dana with a 4L60 OD  (.7OD) & 255/60/15 tires . Runs perfect out on the hwy! 
Very easy to speed though! 

[EddieE]

I have 3.23 gears with a 340 stroked to 416 in a 74 Cuda.  Never liked the little stumble off the line in light-duty driving.

Have you tried the A833 with the 3.09 first gear? I've had the A833 OD trans and the A833 close-ratio trans in the car, all rebuilt by Passon.  I got the suggestion to have him reman an A833 with the 3.09 first gear, and I am amazed at the improved driveablilty.  Definitely try that before you give up on the 3.23 gears.  Maybe you can borrow one from someone for the day.  It's all one-to-one in 4th, but it will feel like a daily driver with that 3.09 first gear.

[brads70]

I have 3.23 gears with a 340 stroked to 416 in a 74 Cuda.  Never liked the little stumble off the line in light-duty driving.

Have you tried the A833 with the 3.09 first gear? I've had the A833 OD trans and the A833 close-ratio trans in the car, all rebuilt by Passon.  I got the suggestion to have him reman an A833 with the 3.09 first gear, and I am amazed at the improved driveablilty.  Definitely try that before you give up on the 3.23 gears.  Maybe you can borrow one from someone for the day.  It's all one-to-one in 4th, but it will feel like a daily driver with that 3.09 first gear.

Sounds like a great idea! I never knew the gear options in 833's before! Learned something new!

[femtnmax]

I have 3.23 gears with a 340 stroked to 416 in a 74 Cuda.  Never liked the little stumble off the line in light-duty driving.

Have you tried the A833 with the 3.09 first gear?

Funny you should ask.  About a year ago I did exactly what you did.  Brewers had a gear set with the 3.09 first gear.  The gearset was used of course, but almost in perfect condition.  As you say it has made a world of difference.  With only the 360 V8 there is only certain cam durations that work well...you can't go very big without loosing some aspect of street drivablilty.  I thought of the Passon overdrive kit for the A833.  Has anyone heard good or bad about them?  I also thought of a stroker kit.   I was going to go thru the gear ratios on the Passon kit vs the ratios that I have found that work well and see if the Passon ratios are in the right ballpark.
Eddie, what do you think of your 416?  On Youtube looks like a tire frying combo...but I want to move down the road.  I thought of building a 360 stroked to 383 just to be different.  A friend used to have a 390GT Mustang...was fun to drive, and the 383 would have the same stroke and almost the same bore as the GT.
Like most of you, I guess I like to tinker.   Thanks for the responses. 

[EddieE]

I am extremely happy with the 416.  I think Ryan has done it so many times that he knows the impact of every aspect of the build.

All I instructed him to do was build a stroker out of my 340 block with great performance and enough vacuum to operate the air conditioning and the power brakes.  He went over the parts list with me and explained the cost/benefit of each part.  Same thing with the machine work.

This 416 is VERY smooth and driveable, even with the 4 speed that will transfer more vibrations.  It idles at about 900 RPM without loading up.  And yes, if I felt like it I could fry a set of 15" 265 Radial TA's in a week.  Of course I don't because I am law abiding and I'm making every effort to save the planet.  Wow, I couldn't even type that without laughing.

If anyone's interested I can post the parts list in the build.

[femtnmax]

If anyone's interested I can post the parts list in the build.

Yes, I'd like to see your overall parts list, especially cam info such as seat & .05 duration, lift, lobe center angle.  I'm trying to get a feel for the low end torque...with the stroker engine, 4 spd and 3.23 gears can you let the clutch out without touching the gas and not stall the engine?    Thanks!

[EddieE]

Durabond PD-16 cam bearings
King 3/4 groove performance main bearings
Clevite CB663HXN connecting rod bearings (performance)
Liberty 9 keyway billet double roller timing chain
Liberty moly file fit piston ring set
Pioneer non SFI 340 internal balance vibration damper
Fel Pro PT head gaskets Fel Pro 340 rear main seal
Fel Pro 340 oil pan gasket set
Fel Pro 340 timing cover gasket set
Fel Pro 1213 intake gaskets
Edelbrock RPM Air Gap intake manifold
ARP intake manifold bolt kit
Flow Kooler mechanical water pump with impeller disc0
SCAT 4" Cast 9000 series crankshaft
SCAT I beam 4340 connecting rods
Keith Black (ICON series) Forged 4.07" bore dish pistons
Melling M72HV oil pump
Melling Timing tensioner BT428
Edelbrock valve cover gaskets
 
Comp Cams cam & lifter package - Part # 20-225-4
Duration - Intake 240 and Exhaust 246
Lift is Intake .3380 and Exhaust .3400
Lobe separation - 110.0
 
Autolite 5224 spark plugs
K&N PH43 oil filter for break in/priming engine
5 Quarts Brad Penn oil for cam break in
INDY/RHS LA-X Heads, Setup with 2.02"/1.625" stainless valves, complete heads, with Comp valve job, viton seals

Yes, I can let the clutch out slowly in 1st gear at idle and idle down the street.

[dodge freak 2]

You sure its the tight gears that causes a stumble ? I have a manual valve body trans and can lug the engine in 2nd or even 3rd gear while going very slow-yes I know that isn't good for the trans

It might be that air gap intake, carburetors need some heat to run well on the street. Yeah if you live in Texas you need no intake heat during the summer, lol but I found up here in Michigan, even 65 degree temps at night, a non heated intake isn't so great at low speeds

The carb might need some fine tuning as well and don't overlook the ignition system.

As for the perfect gear, heck I feel the 3.91 gears I got, still is a compromise. That 340 seems to still want more gear, like a 4.30 to 4.56 for best ET's but not for better street manners, just for quicker runs 

A 3.23 gear does make a great expressway gear with no OD 

[EddieE]

You sure its the tight gears that causes a stumble ? I have a manual valve body trans and can lug the engine in 2nd or even 3rd gear while going very slow-yes I know that isn't good for the trans

It might be that air gap intake, carburetors need some heat to run well on the street. Yeah if you live in Texas you need no intake heat during the summer, lol but I found up here in Michigan, even 65 degree temps at night, a non heated intake isn't so great at low speeds

The carb might need some fine tuning as well and don't overlook the ignition system.

As for the perfect gear, heck I feel the 3.91 gears I got, still is a compromise. That 340 seems to still want more gear, like a 4.30 to 4.56 for best ET's but not for better street manners, just for quicker runs 

A 3.23 gear does make a great expressway gear with no OD

It could be a combination of the air gap, which is advertised to be best at 1500 and up, and the cold weather.  The carb was tuned on the dyno when the engine was built, so I think that's OK.  Either way, that 3.09 first gear is exactly what the car needed.  It's infinitely more driveable.

The ignition is all new MSD, with a digital 6AL, MSD wires, new MSD coil, and an MSD ecurve distributor.  The ecurve let's me get the timing at idle up as high as I like, and that also made an incredible difference in off-the-line driveability.  I can also get the advance curve all in at 2,000 RPM.  I jerked around with the vacuum advance for a month or so, but I always got detonation at certain points.  Now I run 34 degrees total, with a 15 degree reverse curve to get me a 19 degree advance at idle.  It runs great!