Author Topic: Diagnosing a "miss" - fuel or electrical?  (Read 6117 times)

Offline brads70

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Re: Diagnosing a "miss" - fuel or electrical?
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2012 - 10:12:49 PM »
I would check the fuel bowl to see if fuel is getting there.  My guess would be the filter is clogged again.  Get a new tank (instead of cleaning the current one) and new filter.  Replace the wiring, etc as time permits.
:iagree:
 My tank had literally a shovel full of rust in it when I replaced it. If the tank is that rusty the sender will be too. Mine was. If you remove a lower bowl screw or sight plug and find it's not getting fuel then I would guess the filter too or even maybe the sock filter in the tank is plugged. Take off the breather and work the throttle linkage by hand to see if fuel squirts in?  If no fuel is there then spray some down the carb and see if it starts/fires?
If it's not a fuel problem I'd suspect the ignition box? Or the coil? I wasn't interested in dealing with either the electronic ignition box or the ballast resistor and went with a MSD6AL box and a MSD coil right off the bat as soon as I got my car. 
Just my 2 cents?
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
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Offline 73restomod

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Re: Diagnosing a "miss" - fuel or electrical?
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2012 - 11:55:24 PM »
I think its electrical, could be heat soak, or a loose connection. Are you still running the factory ammeter in the dash? When it quit last time was it on a rough patch of road? Was the temperature higher on the days it has quit? After the dyno tune has the carb leaked at all? Have someone crank the car and T- in a fuel pressure gauge. If that checks out try a free-flow test with an old mason jar.

Those 2 test will eliminate the fuel system. Then you can focus on the electrical. Try to force it to quit, when it does get an spark plug checker (I prefer the pen shaped ones, you just slip it over the wire and if there is a spark it will show you, dirt cheap too) and have a helper crank it. If there is no spark check the coil resistance (when its hot). If that passes, do a voltage check on the negative coil wire it should have at least 9 volts, and it should go dead and come back as the engine is cranked if the ignition box is working right. If not, also check the voltage coming out of the distributor, if you have an electric ignition the voltage will vary from almost nothing to 5 volts. If you have points and there is no voltage drop at the negative coil wire you need new ones, or to file and adjust the old ones. If the ammeter connections in the dash are loose it could cause the car to quit when
It hit a big pothole. Hope this helps.
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Offline _Russ_

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Re: Diagnosing a "miss" - fuel or electrical?
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2012 - 04:20:54 AM »
I would check the fuel bowl to see if fuel is getting there.  My guess would be the filter is clogged again.  Get a new tank (instead of cleaning the current one) and new filter.  Replace the wiring, etc as time permits.

I'd love to get a new tank, but being in Australia the price is a little prohibitive for me at the moment.

A tank from Summit is approx $240, but with shipping the total cost jumps to $570+. The few local suppliers are even more expensive. Removing the tank costs me about and hour of my time and $150 to get it cleaned.

New tank is probably the more sensible option, but not a financial option at this stage.





:iagree:
 My tank had literally a shovel full of rust in it when I replaced it. If the tank is that rusty the sender will be too. Mine was. If you remove a lower bowl screw or sight plug and find it's not getting fuel then I would guess the filter too or even maybe the sock filter in the tank is plugged. Take off the breather and work the throttle linkage by hand to see if fuel squirts in?  If no fuel is there then spray some down the carb and see if it starts/fires?
If it's not a fuel problem I'd suspect the ignition box? Or the coil? I wasn't interested in dealing with either the electronic ignition box or the ballast resistor and went with a MSD6AL box and a MSD coil right off the bat as soon as I got my car.

Fuel is getting to the carb. After it stops, I crank it a few times and the smell is ever present. With my limited knowledge, I have an urge to put money on the fact the spark plug wires are crapping out (in conjunction wit the 3 volt system drop).

When driving, nothing else dies. Stereo doesn't stop; gauges don't go silly or move about - the engine simply stops and refuses to fire up. Will crank, but no start until the next day after everything is completely cooled down.





I think its electrical, could be heat soak, or a loose connection. Are you still running the factory ammeter in the dash? When it quit last time was it on a rough patch of road? Was the temperature higher on the days it has quit? After the dyno tune has the carb leaked at all? Have someone crank the car and T- in a fuel pressure gauge. If that checks out try a free-flow test with an old mason jar.

Those 2 test will eliminate the fuel system. Then you can focus on the electrical. Try to force it to quit, when it does get an spark plug checker (I prefer the pen shaped ones, you just slip it over the wire and if there is a spark it will show you, dirt cheap too) and have a helper crank it. If there is no spark check the coil resistance (when its hot). If that passes, do a voltage check on the negative coil wire it should have at least 9 volts, and it should go dead and come back as the engine is cranked if the ignition box is working right. If not, also check the voltage coming out of the distributor, if you have an electric ignition the voltage will vary from almost nothing to 5 volts. If you have points and there is no voltage drop at the negative coil wire you need new ones, or to file and adjust the old ones. If the ammeter connections in the dash are loose it could cause the car to quit when it hit a big pothole. Hope this helps.

No rough roads. Regular temps, both the day & vehicle temp. No carb leakage (that I could tell).

The only voltage drops in the system are form the 2 area mentioned about. The fusible link on the inner fender, and one of the wires from the back of the fuse panel on the firewall (haven't pinpointed this last one yet).

The coil, dizzy & battery are all reading fine.



Offline wally426ci

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Re: Diagnosing a "miss" - fuel or electrical?
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2012 - 07:00:06 AM »
Get the tank sealed to, maybe use the POR Eagle product?

I think it's your only issue.

Clean and seal the tank
get the carb completely cleaned along with new fueld filter and check your pump for garbage
get MSD plug wires

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Offline Bullitt-

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Re: Diagnosing a "miss" - fuel or electrical?
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2012 - 08:28:22 AM »
On the power issue you can test the theory by bypassing the start wiring by creating a temporary jumper from the +battery terminal to the input of the ballast resistor.  If she starts then you know that is where the problem is. 
A local club member solved his low voltage problem by using a relay to supply power to the ignition. http://tvmoparclub.com/files/tech/Quick%20Start%20Relay.pdf
I was having some intermittent start/run issues a few years ago and found that my ballast resistor that checked good on the bench gave fluctuating readings under load. Replaced it & problems went away.
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Offline _Russ_

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Re: Diagnosing a "miss" - fuel or electrical?
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2012 - 03:51:47 AM »
Quick update on this. Decided to replace the tank, instead of cleaning the old one. New one arrived last week so decided to get started.





Took the old tank out today, had a look inside and ... nada. Not a drop of dirt/rust/grime. Nothing that would account for the brown milky substance I referred to in an earlier post, that had made its way into the fuel filter.









So, I can only assume it has to have come from inside the fuel lines. I see no other option. Any thoughts? Ideas?



I'll do a small write-up with pics in another post to show the tank removal, for those that might need to do it. Pretty easy.

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Offline hooD

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Re: Diagnosing a "miss" - fuel or electrical?
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2012 - 05:56:34 AM »

- Fuel filter was blocked. Couldn't even blow through it. Reason being ...

- The fuel inside the filter and what immediately poured out the lines was filthy. Looked like chocolate milk - and that's not one bit of exaggeration. It was putrid.

So, I can only assume it has to have come from inside the fuel lines. I see no other option. Any thoughts? Ideas?


Not too long ago my fuel filter come apart internally, which caused a piece of it to get lodged in my carburetor, similar to a blood clot flowing to your heart causing a heart attack.  It caused fuel leakage at the carb throttle plate linkage and flooding and backfiring when trying to start.  The idle was horrible. 

my solution:   I gave the fuel inlet 5-6 short bursts of air at 40 PSI.  Then I started the car and let it idle for about 15 mins and let the engine temp come up.  Shut it down and there were no leaks from the carb and no fuel vapors (smoke) coming out of the top of the bowl.  It's been fine ever since.

The fuel filter was replaced with a different brand. 
 

-Larry
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