440 balanced internally or externally (how to determine)?

[slsc98]

My '73 Challenger has a 440 Magnum in it which the seller advised me came out of a '70 GTX. Unfortunately, he also purchased the car with the 440 in it so, all I have to go on is what the seller advised me.

I am replacing the clutch kit in the car and have determined (thanks to C-C.com forum members here!) that I can get around the fact my original trans has a 1" / 23-spline shaft.

However, in shopping for a clutch kit, the question has arisen as to whether my 440 is balanced internally or externally.

Is this something I might be able to determine using any casting, stamped or engraved #'s on the 440 engine?

I ask as, the engine is currently in a buddy's garage an hour away where I can't get to it but, I can likely get the right person in his household to go out and relay #'s off the engine to me, over the phone.

Hope I'm not committing any faux pas posting a question re: a supposed Roadrunner engine here but, it is ultimately (very!) Challenger-related.

And, as always, Thanks in Advance!

[bad440]

The easiest way to determine cast crank engine is the engine balancer, will have external counterweights as well as being marked Cast crank engine on balancer. There are other methods but this would be the easiest.

[johannes]

Hello.
I'll try to give you a few pointers.

In addition to internally and externally balanced engines, you MIGHT come across a "thrown together mix of the two".
Some unfortunate buyers, have a combination thrown together by ignorant wannabe machanics.
Mechanics who believe that as long as the parts physically fits they'll work in harmony.
Persistant vibration problems will be the result.

With that in mind, my advise is to find out of your engine/trannsmission combination appears to be working OK as far as vibrations is concerned... Call the privious owner if in doubt...??
IF VIBRATION LEVEL even at hight speeds and revs are acceptable, my advise is to replace EACH of your old part with a similar new one if needed.

Example. Even if your engine originally had a cast crank, and was of externally balanced design (with matching harminic balancer in front, and matching externally balanced converter) there is still a possibility that this crank has been put in a machine and INTERNALLY BALANCED (together with your pistins, rods, etc...)during a proper overhaul. During this overhaul, each part has been balanced, or replaced by a balanced part.
This is what I have in one of my cars...

That was the the differcult answer.

The simple answer is, take a picture of the harmonic balancer (front crank pulley)
We should be able to tell you is this balancer originallay was of type internal or external balanced type.
Same goes for the converter for automatic, and I assume also for the clutch.
Provide pictures, and I'm sure someone can find a book and tell you what you have.(Of external parts at least)

AGAIN, IF your combo is causing heavy vibration, the culpit MIGHT be a mismatch in your engine/tranny combo, and you really do not want to just replase incorrect parts....

SORRY if my answer caused more confusion than clearification.... 

[slsc98]

Thanks guys and certainly, NO 'apologies' necessary!

I now regret not taking more pictures as we got into it Saturday but, as some have mentioned previously, after a certain point, even if you're wearing gloves, you simply don't want to be handling anything like a cell phone or other camera, that you 'care' about!

I will see if I can get some pics to post (it may be that I have the right shot from the passel of pics I took of the engine compartment the very first day I found the car . . .)

[slsc98]

Any chance this shot helps you, help me?

[johannes]

Sorry,..no.
The waterpump pulley sort of blocks the view of the crank pulley
But maybe this link will help you ?
http://www.440source.com/dampers.htm
A lot of good reading at this site.....

[slsc98]

Wow, Thank YOU!!!!

(I'm printing it out to read on a plane trip, now!)

[73restomod]

440 cast crank dampner will have a large weight cast into it on the front, on the outer ring, you may have to remove the crank pulley to see this. LoL, I just took one to the scrap yard about 2 weeks ago, otherwise I just post a pick. However, so does the factory 6-Pack dampner.......

[Chryco Psycho]

Axctually the picture may help , it looks to me like E or F 440 & HP2 stamped on the Pad , if it is a 70 HP2 engine it will have six pack rods & is externally balanced IF it was rebuilt with stock parts .