Author Topic: Megasquirt 2 EFI and Vintage Air A/C on my 74 Challenger  (Read 20865 times)

Offline quagmire

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Megasquirt 2 EFI and Vintage Air A/C on my 74 Challenger
« on: August 13, 2014 - 07:01:02 PM »
It's been awhile since I posted (crazy busy with work, house, getting married, etc.) and I ended up keeping my Challenger with a Eddy headed 408 small block.  A few years back I was seriously considering selling it but couldn't do it.  I've had it since I was 16.  Anyway, I'm now in the process of modernizing and restoring the car.  I've already switched to 1970 style bumpers and brackets and a dual exhaust valence.  The rest of the body/paint will be done at a later date.

Engine wise, I ditched the Edelbrock 800 carb and Air Gap intake for a Super Victor EFI manifold, Edelbrock 4 hole throttle body, and some 44lb Venom Injectors in port fuel injection configuration.  It's all fed from a tank mounted Aeromotive Phantom Stealth 340 pump.









Controlling everything is a Megasquirt 2 ECU that I built and modified myself.  This thing is awesome, and I would do it all over again in a heartbeat.  It is extremely universal and configurable, both from a hardware and software standpoint.  It controls the following:

fan
PWM IAC
Injectors in Bank Batch fire
A/C Compressor
Ignition Coil
fuel pump relay
tachometer output

This winter I'll probably ditch the distributor entirely and fit a crank trigger and coil packs instead.  The wiring and Megasquirt modifications are already in place for it.  I also plan on adding a knock sensor.

I ended up building a harness from scratch since virtually everything else in my car is not stock after installing a Painless Wiring 18 circuit harness and a ton of other modern conveniences.  I use a pair of 35 pin Ampseal connectors on an aluminum bulkhead plate I fabricated and mounted in the stock location.  The black one is for the chassis wiring and the blue for the EFI system.  The Megasquirt is located behind the glove box.



All I can say is, wow!  I wish I had went EFI sooner.  With minimal tuning I have this car running far better than it ever did with a carb.  It'll idle in closed loop baby smooth at 800RPM despite the cam, and idles up on cold start or when the A/C is on like a new car.  She fires up instantly and doesn't stumble or buck at all if driven cold.  It is almost odorless now when idling, where as before it was smelly!  It has built in rev limiter (can be set up to vary with engine temp, so lower rev limit when cold) and launch control functions.  Here are some screenshots of the tuning and datalogging software.  It's pretty powerful stuff and I've done calibration work for late model engines at the OEM level with Engineering level calibration software.





Cruising is incredible too.  This car will run as lean as 16.5-17.0:1 without an issue, and I am still playing with advance to see how much I can squeeze out of it.  I've already noticed a huge difference in MPG.  Throttle response and part throttle are incredible as well.  I need to get it on a dyno to really dial in the WOT and spark tables still.  I'm running a wideband in each bank and pull crank signal off of the VR sensor in the locked out MSD distributor.  With a few mods (shaft collar on the distributor shaft and chain tensioner) the timing is actually pretty steady.

Admittedly, I'm not a carb tuning pro, but I'm not that bad either.

Last week, I installed a Vintage Air A/C system.  It works incredibly well and I'd recommend it to anyone.  The fitment is pretty good, the box is tiny in comparison to the factory stuff, and it blows like ice.  I did not use their compressor kit since I have a March serpentine drive, so I fitted a compressor to that instead.  It makes the car much more usable since I no longer have to wait for the perfect day to cruise in it without being baked alive.  Low speed cooling is an issue if I idle for a long time, but that rarely happens so I don't think I'll be doing anything about it.  The HHR fan cools quite well for the most part.





This car is infinitely more enjoyable now, and I cannot wait to get the body/paint done so it looks as good as it drives.  I'm planning on going to modern suspension, brakes, and a 6 speed too.  If I can get low to mid 20's MPG out of this thing I'll drive it daily!
« Last Edit: August 13, 2014 - 07:56:35 PM by quagmire »




Offline Strawdawg

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Re: Megasquirt 2 EFI and Vintage Air A/C on my 74 Challenger
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2014 - 07:12:52 PM »
That's really nice! Nothing like FI to give a car good street manners!

Offline daaboots

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Re: Megasquirt 2 EFI and Vintage Air A/C on my 74 Challenger
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2014 - 03:09:08 PM »
Great job! Once I get my car finished I'd like to convert to EFI as well.

Offline roadman5312

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Re: Megasquirt 2 EFI and Vintage Air A/C on my 74 Challenger
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2014 - 03:26:47 PM »
My hats off to you sir, incredible work.

Offline RCCDrew

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Re: Megasquirt 2 EFI and Vintage Air A/C on my 74 Challenger
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2014 - 09:47:20 PM »
Great work!  You make it sound easy. Wonder if it's worth the extra effort over a TBI system, like the msd atomic?

Offline quagmire

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Re: Megasquirt 2 EFI and Vintage Air A/C on my 74 Challenger
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2014 - 11:44:13 PM »
I think it was.  On top of the overall better fuel distribution and metering (crucial for lean cruise and clean idle where the poorest fuel metered cylinder will determine your leanest AFR) I have full control over ignition timing from cranking to rev limiting on top of electric fan control, launch control, A/C control, knock sensing, dual widebands, etc.

Also, I actually ended up spending LESS than what some of the TBI setups cost with a far more changeable tuning system. 

That said, instead of wondering if the extra complexity was worth it for multiport injection I asked myself if the TBI was worth it for money involved given the substantial costs of the kits.  It was this or stay with the carb.

I'd do what I did again in an instant.  The car runs so smooth now with closed loop idle control that I actually wish I had a bigger cam to make it lope more.......

If all goes as planned, I will actually be going back through the engine this winter to get head work done and will be bumping up the compression to 13.5:1 or so to optimize the switch over to E85.  My fuel system will only require bigger injectors since the rest of it is compatible and can support the extra flow.  I'll delete the distributor and go to coil packs with a 36-1 crank trigger mounted as well.

Offline RCCDrew

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Re: Megasquirt 2 EFI and Vintage Air A/C on my 74 Challenger
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2014 - 07:18:30 AM »
Very cool. Can you point me toward some reading material so I can get better informed? I'm very interested.

Offline ShelbyDogg

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Re: Megasquirt 2 EFI and Vintage Air A/C on my 74 Challenger
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2014 - 08:58:06 AM »
All the info and links to more info about MEGASQUIRT can be found here:

http://www.megamanual.com/mtabcon.htm

Everything about EFI is all over the internet already.
Rob

3 E-bodies, Megasquirt-1v3.0, Edelbrock Pro-Flo-1, Holley C950, FAST EZ-EFI; say no to carbs...yes to throttle bodies

My Pace Car restoration thread:
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=44869.0


Offline RCCDrew

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Re: Megasquirt 2 EFI and Vintage Air A/C on my 74 Challenger
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2014 - 02:13:02 PM »
I've been doing some reading. How did you decide what components to use in your system?

Offline oldskoolboarder

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Re: Megasquirt 2 EFI and Vintage Air A/C on my 74 Challenger
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2014 - 02:16:20 PM »
Wow, impressive skills you have there sir.

Offline quagmire

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Re: Megasquirt 2 EFI and Vintage Air A/C on my 74 Challenger
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2014 - 08:27:40 PM »
Yeah, if only I knew how to do body/paint, LOL.  This winter I really want to get that all done, having a car that looks like the one from Joe Dirt and having a nice engine just isn't cutting it anymore.

Offline NxCoupe

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Re: Megasquirt 2 EFI and Vintage Air A/C on my 74 Challenger
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2014 - 07:31:20 PM »
Yeah, if only I knew how to do body/paint, LOL.  This winter I really want to get that all done, having a car that looks like the one from Joe Dirt and having a nice engine just isn't cutting it anymore.
  Any pics of the box under the dash?  How much did you have to cut of the firewall to get the a/c on?  I just did a 69 camaro with vintage air, but it was a factory a/c car to start with.  My challenger is not tho, so I'm wondering what will have to be done to get it on there.  I, too, am a huge EFI fan.  I'm a holley dealer and tune with SCT for the late model stuff.  I was the holley guy to go to for years for tuning their carbs, now I'm the holley EFI banner waver in my area, lol.  I just did a 70 mach 1 pro touring for a guy, holley efi and US shift trans controller for the 4R70W trans.  Love the pro touring stuff, can't wait to get started on mine.  Wish you were closer, I could help you with your body and sheetmetal stuff.

Offline ragtopdodge

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Re: Megasquirt 2 EFI and Vintage Air A/C on my 74 Challenger
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2014 - 07:46:51 PM »
Batch or sequential?

I assume the former if you're in the market for a crank trigger.

Instead of a crank trigger, just get a dual-sync distributor:

http://www.fuelairspark.com/fas/efi-components/dual-sync-distributors/
'70 318-auto Chally 'vert
'71 383-auto 'Cuda 'vert (sold)
06 300c SRT8
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Offline GreenFish

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Re: Megasquirt 2 EFI and Vintage Air A/C on my 74 Challenger
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2014 - 07:37:57 AM »
I'm in the process of going MS3 on my cuda.  Read through this post for some great info

http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php?topic=99432.300#lastPost
70 cuda, 440, KB pistons, 10.5:1 compression, edlebrock heads,RacerBrown cam, 5-Speed Tremec, Megasquirt EFI

Offline quagmire

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Re: Megasquirt 2 EFI and Vintage Air A/C on my 74 Challenger
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2014 - 10:50:59 PM »
Quote
Any pics of the box under the dash?  How much did you have to cut of the firewall to get the a/c on?

I don't have any good pics, but zero cutting is required and the box takes up much less space.

Quote
Batch or sequential?

Right now it is batch fire.  But plans changed and I'm actually going to MS3 with full sequential, dual knock sensors, a bunch of new sensors, and using the current MS2 as a TCM to control an electronic OD trans.  The wife says it has to stay auto.....

It was cheaper to buy a new MS3X kit and use the MS2 as a TCM than upgrade the MS2 and buy another one for trans control.  They actually have trans controller code released now.

I already have a set of LS2 truck coils, wideband knock sensors, fuel and oil pressure transducers, and a Jeep CMP sensor that will be going on over winter along with a new harness.  I'm planning on running a similar adapter bushing as that Charger has along with a 36-1 crank trigger.