squealing belts

[jordan]

I am going out now to play with the PS pump alignment.  Just to see what happens.

    As far as the front alignment, I have changed sooooo much stuff that I am not sure how to get to an endpoint.  So it will go in.  I have Hotchkis upper arms and tie rods, and adjustable strut rods.  I don't really have a start point to know since the front was entirely pulled apart and I don't even have the K-frame that came in the car.  Too many variables. I have 15 miles on the car and my springs are settling a bit, so I have to crank the front up a bit.  The alignment guy wanted to know if I have any settings I am aiming for.  Suggestions?  Start a new thread? 

[Chryco Psycho]

typically 3* castor is the most you will get without adjustable A arms , you can run more it just makes the car go straight , but past 3 * is tougher with manual steering [ I ran a number of laps on a race track & it was getting to be a workout although the car went dead straight @ 145 MPH !!] , With power steering you could go to 4 or 5 *
 Camber depends on how you drive the car , most street cars are 1/2* in at the top but I usually set it higher [more like 1-2* inward] for me but I tend to not slow or brake in corners .
 toe in depends on the width of the tires , 5-6" 1/16 is fine 8" you probably want a bit more around 1/8"
 

[jordan]

I shimmed my PS pump to see if I could get better alignment of the pulleys.  No luck.  Still squeals!!!  The alignment seems better but the squealing got worse.  I tried a small adjustment at one point, and the squealing was a bit better, but still squealing.  I cannot find the way to get it gone, unless I take off the belt.  I would like to have power steering and Hydroboost brakes, so that is no fix.  I did notice the PS pump pulley looked sort of not very even all the way around.  Like the widest part of the v-groove is wavy and inconsistent in its width.  I got the pulley and pump at Bouchelion, but the pulley doesn't look perfect.  Could the inconsistent width of the v-groove cause the issue?  Im ready to pull my last remaining hair out!   

[Chryco Psycho]

I doubt it is the issue , sounds like a combination of the engine revving quickly & th eload on the pump causing enough drag that the belt cannot grip the pulley enough , I wonder if you could add a serpentine pulley to the crank & pump & run a serp belt ? I am sure you could have a pulley made , maybe even a smaller diameter to slow the PS down ?

[jordan]

I messed with the pulleys again tonight.  No luck moving the PS pump.  So I started thinking differently.  It appears the PS pump is towards the radiator just a little bit compared to the WP pulley.  So I checked the alignment of the WP pulley to the crank pulley.  It paperers the WP pulley is in towards the block just a bit more than the PS and crank pulley.  Looks like I can shim the WP pulley out just a bit to have better alignment.  The car is going in for an alignment tomorrow, and I will get it back on thursday.  Should I buy the shims from 440 Source and have them shipped 2 day, knowing that they will fit and be balanced, or attempt to make my own for no money and risk fitment issues again?  I may just spend the money for an known product that will work.  I am planning to buy 2 just in case 1 isn't enough.  I wish I would have noticed this earlier!  And I hope it will fix the problem too. 

[1 Wild R/T]

I just put new belts on my Challenger & got a similar squeal, never had it before, 18 years no squeal, new belt squeal..... The old belt was a Gates Gold, new belt was a standard Gates belt... I put the old belt back on.. No more squealing... I'm gonna look into other premium belts...

[tman]

Did you try another PS belt? 

[BadJoey]

I've been living with my noise but sure would like it gone . I have notice if I tighten the belt tenison as tight as I can noise goes away . But that's not the answer I worry that over tighten can ware out bearings . Keep us up to date with what you find please .

[Chryco Psycho]

As I said earlier in the 70s all the cars had V belts & there were 1000s made / day for the assy line , now there is very little demand for V belts so the quality may be reduced + the belts will be older & may sit on the shelf for a long time before they are sold , Rock auto may turn over stock faster using 1 warehouse country wide instead of being in stock at an individual store

[jordan]

How much can a pulley be misaligned and not be an issue?  When I followed my straight edge out far enough along the side of the belt, I can see that the pulleys are not perfect.  It is not very obvious that they are misaligned, but probably are more than it takes to make the belt happy.  I will try the shims.  It the squeal goes away, great.  If not, then I try another belt.  I don't have many more options. 

[Chryco Psycho]

I highly doubt alignment is the issue , if it is not throwing the belt off it is fine IMO

[tman]

I agree, alignment should not be that huge of an issue.  Belts are not that expensive, unless you are getting those reproduction ones. 

[jordan]

My plan is to try the spacer.  If it doesn't work, I will try a different belt.  If the belt doesn't work, then.........??

[67vertman]

My plan is to try the spacer.  If it doesn't work, I will try a different belt.  If the belt doesn't work, then.........??

If this was my problem I would be     

Maybe you could try putting some small groves in the pulley(s) with a Drimil tool or Hack Saw blade so the belt would grip better. 

Are you sure its the belt squealing....and not the pump?

[jordan]

No Im not sure it not the pump!  It is new and spins freely.  I don't feel any play in the shaft. I did hold a steel shaft to it and against my ear, and all I heard was a normal spinning mechanical noise.  Just the same as the alternator, and power steering pump.  How else can I tell?  I did spray water onto the belt and I also applied a little bit of bar soap as a lubricant to see if the noise goes away.  At lower RPMs is did, but it definitely comes back at 2300-2500 RPMs always. Im going to go get another belt now to try to see if it is the belt vs something else.  If I change the belt, and shim the pulley, and it still makes noise, am I to assume it is the pump or a bad pulley?  I cannot isolate which pulley it is squealing from.  I just know it goes away when I take the belt off.   Why does this have to be so hard?  It is a very simple thing. 

And my thermostat housing is leaking again too.  I even used anaerobic sealant.  Try again.  The front alignment feels good!  Caster is 5, camber is -.75* and toe is 1/16".   Now if I can only get out and beat on it!!!