Ever wonderd about Nascar front spindles?

[brads70]

I have a buddy talked into building a late model circle track car using torsion bars and a stock K-frame but with a rack, splined sway bars, and front steer. We figure torsion bars will be useful for using bumpstops that are so common these days in circle track racing, and it keeps the weight down low as well as lower front frame rails. 
So he wanted one of my extra k-Frames so we swapped for a pair of front spindles off an old Hooters Cup car he parted out. They are usually Nascar hand me downs. These are road race spindles and are symmetrical left to right with 8 deg KPI
Good swap I figured and I still have an extra K-frame when I need it. For those that don't know all Nascar cars use Dodge based spindles. Just everything is oversized for strength. Check out the size of the wheel bearings!    Rotors are massive too! 13" by 1.375 thick!
Any way... I disassembled and measured and compared it to the 73 C-Body spindles I have on now . I printed off an old drawing I made of them and wrote in red the Nascar spindle dimensions . I though someone now or in the future might find this useful, or just find it interesting? I have a few lumps of 7075 aluminum laying around I might make a new pair of hubs, one to lighten the load and , two to make the correct bolt pattern for the wheels. I'm toying around with using the extra K-frame I have as a guinea pig for a custom rack and pinion install with these spindles. I also am thinking about modifying the steering arms to use a Dodge screw in ball joint so I can play around with different pin heights.
Hey... it's going to be a long winter and I need something to occupy my mind! 

[HP2]

Dat's some cool chit right there. I might have to start browsing some of the used nascar parts stores for some of those.

With the divorced steering arm/bottom ball joint, you can alter length to speed up/slow down steering response or to restore ackerman for a front steer setup.

Heck, I'd leave the bolt pattern and have my S60 axles re-drilled for the 5 on 5 to use a wider selection of wheels, But I don't already have cool Minilites like you do.

[brads70]

Dat's some cool chit right there. I might have to start browsing some of the used nascar parts stores for some of those.

With the divorced steering arm/bottom ball joint, you can alter length to speed up/slow down steering response or to restore ackerman for a front steer setup.

Heck, I'd leave the bolt pattern and have my S60 axles re-drilled for the 5 on 5 to use a wider selection of wheels, But I don't already have cool Minilites like you do.

They are hard to find from a road race car, most are from ovals and the spindles have different pin heights ,different KPI and steering arm lengths. And.... they usually weld the arm to the spindle. These were a nice score...free!
I thought it's pretty cool/ironic that they are real close to the 73 C-Body spindle even after all these years! Just beefier, slightly taller. When you factor in where the center of the lower ball joint is in relation to the pin/snout, they are real close.
I'm going to modify the steering arm to accept a screw in K719 ball joint from Howe (using these.http://www.howeracing.com/p-7961-ball-joint-mounting-rings.aspx )as they have lots of pin height options to chose from and the K719 is the same pin taper as the standard k781/783  E-Body lower ball joints so I can use A-body LCA's like my last set up. . Also I can then put the ball joint where I want it height wise. I'm going to have to go to the bearing supply store in town to see if they make a smaller outer bearing OD wise but the same ID so I can make my hub snout a little smaller. Right now it's 3.050" and I think my rims are 3" minus the caps? 
http://www.howeracing.com/p-7933-howe-22418-fits-k719.aspx
I'm thinking about making my own K-Frame from square tubing and possibly a rack with front steer depending on what's in the way room wise? Then nice thing about making a K-Frame is I can adjust the LCA pin height where I want it and use the Speedway Engineering or Schroeder splined end sway bars. http://www.schroedersteering.com/HomePage.html   http://www.1speedway.com/index.htm
Not rocket science and cheap to do material wise.
 Woodward will make a rack in any width you request!    Center to center of the LCA pins is about 26 3/8 so a rack 2" shorter is what I figure I'll need.
http://www.woodwardsteering.com/images/rack%20and%20pinion%20units.pdf
Failing that I'm hearing a Mustang rack is pretty close width wise too? 24"? Not sure about the steering ratio though? I can mess around with steering arm lengths to help with that too?  I'll have to investigate that?
Brake options  with 18" rims are wide open too! Rotor Diameter, thickness , Brake caliper options etc... 
Lots of fun.....

[johns cuda shop]

Nice Score   

[brads70]

a little more "progress"  parts collecting...2005 AMG Mercedes E55 8 piston brake calipers ? Yep they will fit! 

[CUDA JAS]

those look insane!

I would love to have the skills and tools you have and be able to mess with these kinda things!!

Jason

[73EStroker]

Interesting those two piece rotors Brad. Where do you buy new ones though? I believe NASCAR is hieroglyphic for "many dollars". Pity you couldn't run the NASCAR bolt pattern wheels. God almighty some of those look sharp. Then the rears would be an issue with std pattern. I like your idea of front steer for the rack - answer to all of our problems for Mopar stuff. Wonder if we could reverse the lower BJ and have front steer setup - hmmmm.

[brads70]

Interesting those two piece rotors Brad. Where do you buy new ones though? I believe NASCAR is hieroglyphic for "many dollars". Pity you couldn't run the NASCAR bolt pattern wheels. God almighty some of those look sharp. Then the rears would be an issue with std pattern. I like your idea of front steer for the rack - answer to all of our problems for Mopar stuff. Wonder if we could reverse the lower BJ and have front steer setup - hmmmm.

The rotors are not "that" expensive. Tons of used stuff around. The quality top drawer stuff is pricey though. I'm looking into new 14" diameter rotors and they are not cheap. Then again stock Mercedes is not cheap either not to mention too heavy!   Standard Nascar stuff is much cheaper as they make/sell much more than niche sportscar stuff. I'm thinking I'll make my own hubs in aluminum to save some weight and to get the correct bolt pattern. Slotting or redrilling the hats to suit the bolt pattern is not a big deal.

[HP2]

 

Pity you couldn't run the NASCAR bolt pattern wheels.

That is easily done, but since Brad just dropped some big coin on his wheels, it isn't in the cards for him.

 

Wonder if we could reverse the lower BJ and have front steer setup - hmmmm.

You can but it reverses ackerman which creates some squirrelly handling characteristics.

[brads70]

Well I've been crazy busy with work , which is a good thing as it gives me more money to play with. So I haven't had the time I'd like to work on this as much as I want to. Today I converted the steering arms to more "Mopar friendly"  To keep the screw in ball joint sleeves round turning tig welding I thought I'd try a simple tail pipe expander. Worked like a charm!  Ball joint screws in real nice , no distortion! 




I'm pretty lucky to score these spindles/steering arms for free. If I had to buy them new......
So far I have $25 bucks into screw in sleeves plus the AMG calipers.  For the steering arms I'm going to use the Howe quick bump kit. Like I have on now with the Viper brake/C-Body spindle set up.

[brads70]

This is what I'm building my suspension after.....
http://vsusp.com/?tool=2d#0.8%26project_name%3ABrads70%20cup%20spindles%26trim%7Bbody_roll_angle%3A0%7Cfront.left_bump%3A0%7Crear.left_bump%3A0%7Cfront.right_bump%3A0%7Crear.right_bump%3A0%7D%26front%7Bframe.susp_type%3A0%7Cframe.bottom_y%3A16510%7Cframe.center_to_upper_mount_x%3A44577%7Cframe.bottom_to_upper_mount_y%3A27939%7Cframe.center_to_lower_mount_x%3A33654%7Cframe.bottom_to_lower_mount_y%3A4445%7Ccontrol_arms.upper_length%3A19431%7Ccontrol_arms.lower_length%3A33020%7Cknuckles.hub_to_upper_x%3A17208%7Cknuckles.hub_to_lower_x%3A13335%7Cknuckles.hub_to_lower_y%3A6984%7Cknuckles.hub_to_upper_y%3A20637%7Cknuckles.hub_to_strut_axis%3A14000%7Cknuckles.strut_incl%3A8000%7Cwheels.offset%3A-1270%7Cwheels.diameter%3A1800%7Cwheels.diameter_expl%3A35000%7Ctires.size_convention%3A0%7Ctires.section_width%3A31500%7Ctires.aspect_ratio%3A3000%7Ctires.diameter_expl%3A50000%7Ctires.width_expl%3A7620%7D%26rear%7Bframe.susp_type%3A0%7Cframe.bottom_y%3A9200%7Cframe.center_to_upper_mount_x%3A28500%7Cframe.bottom_to_upper_mount_y%3A24000%7Cframe.center_to_lower_mount_x%3A17000%7Cframe.bottom_to_lower_mount_y%3A2400%7Ccontrol_arms.upper_length%3A24800%7Ccontrol_arms.lower_length%3A37500%7Cknuckles.hub_to_upper_x%3A15000%7Cknuckles.hub_to_lower_x%3A13000%7Cknuckles.hub_to_lower_y%3A13000%7Cknuckles.hub_to_upper_y%3A13000%7Cknuckles.hub_to_strut_axis%3A14000%7Cknuckles.strut_incl%3A8000%7Cwheels.offset%3A4000%7Cwheels.diameter%3A1500%7Cwheels.diameter_expl%3A35000%7Ctires.size_convention%3A0%7Ctires.section_width%3A19500%7Ctires.aspect_ratio%3A4500%7Ctires.diameter_expl%3A50000%7Ctires.width_expl%3A7620%7D%26pref%7Bdiag1.px_per_mm%3A200%7Cdiag1.front_or_rear%3Afront%7Ctab.active%3A0%7Cunits%3A0%7Cshow.f%3A1%7Cshow.ca%3A1%7Cshow.k%3A1%7Cshow.w%3A1%7Cshow.t%3A1%7Cshow.rc%3A1%7Cshow.ic%3A1%7Cshow.fvsa%3A1%7Cshow.tl%3A1%7Cshow.kpil%3A1%7Credraw_during_drag%3A1%7Cchart.x_axis_center%3A0%7Cchart.x_axis_window%3A10%7Cchart.x_axis_num_steps%3A21%7Cchart.x_axis_field%3Atrim.body_roll_angle%7Cchart.y_axis_fields%3A%5BFR%5D.general.roll_center.y%7D

[brads70]

Here is a link to where you can get the spindle and steering arms if you wanted to?
http://www.laughlin-racing.com/productlist.asp?cid=17

[brads70]

I rebuilt and painted the calipers.  The pistons are ceramic and Titanium or stainless. Ceramic liners in the aluminum calipers too. Nice quality stuff! 

[CUDA JAS]

I rebuilt and painted the calipers.  The pistons are ceramic and Titanium or stainless. Ceramic liners in the aluminum calipers too. Nice quality stuff! 

  very nice!!!

[73restomod]

Never stop tweaking 
Seriously very cool, will be following the thread.