727 Toasted Due To Disconnected Cooler Line

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Offline Cyberwolf

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727 Toasted Due To Disconnected Cooler Line
« on: October 17, 2014 - 01:07:05 AM »
Recently finished up with a full rotisserie restoration on a 70 challenger earlier this summer.  Hired a professional shop to put the car back together and now there is about 700 miles on it since completion.  Motor is a new built 440 six pack bored and stroked.  727 torqueflite with reverse shifter freshly rebuilt, 430 gears in the rear.  Had some issues with the neutral safety switch shortly after completion of the project which was cutting out the ignition and causing the car not to start. Took the car back to the shop on three separate occasions to fix the problem and finally they replaced the neutral safety switch which made the trouble go away.

Also it's worth noting about a week or two before I brought the car in for the safety switch problem, I had a stereo system installed from an interior shop.  The interior shop drilled a hole in the front of the tranny hump and ran a large power wire directly to the battery to power the head unit as well as the separate power amplifier.  After the defective safety switch was replaced I drove the car on several occasions.  One day I went to pick up my wife from work with the car and on our way home, the transmission began to slip badly and suddenly lost power on a busy street. 

I had the car towed back to the shop and a couple days later, they had the tranny pulled out so I picked it up and brought it back to the tranny shop who built it as well as the engine.  Upon inspection, the tranny shop discovered the fluid was badly burnt and the converter was also damaged.  They were unable to repair the damaged converter so they sent it in to a specialized company to have it rebuilt.

The tranny shop did a complete analysis on all the parts of the transmission and found extensive damage to the entire unit which they determined had been caused by a disconnected cooler line.  The result was catastrophic overheating.  The tranny shop stated this would not be covered under warranty and I would be liable for repairs.  At first they said it was going to cost $200 then they came back a few days later saying it would be well over $1000 plus the cost of labor for the restoration shop to remove and reinstall the tranny.

My biggest concern was how the heck did the cooler line get disconnected?  The tranny shop owner and the restoration shop (these two parties have a close business relationship) claim the cooler line became disconnected somehow when the sound system was installed.  When the interior shop ran the power wire to the battery, they tie wrapped it to one of the cooler lines to keep it away from the exhaust.  The blame was placed squarely on the interior shop with the thought that the installer bumped one of the Jiffy tite fittings causing it to disconnect from the line running to the cooler.  They also blamed the power wire tie wrapped to the cooler line.  My thought is no way can you disconnect a jiffy tite fitting from simply bumping it or by tie wrapping a wire with little tension on it to the cooler line.  If they come loose that easily, such a fitting should never have been used in the first place.

My reaction to this theory was of complete disbelief.  For one thing,  The stereo was installed before the neutral safety switch was replaced so the last person to work on that part of the car was the tech from the restoration shop.  At that time, there was nothing at all mentioned about the tie wrapped power wire being a potential problem of which was in plain view with the car up on a hoist.  If the stereo guy had somehow caused the cooler line to disconnect, it seems to me it would have easily been spotted during the safety switch replacement and the restoration tech might have even pulled that line off himself to get it out of the way to replace the safety switch.  The most suspicious fact of the matter is the restoration tech did not say a word about finding any loose or disconnected cooler lines when he pulled the damaged tranny.  If a line was loose or disconnected, I think he would have noticed right away and said something about it due to the fact he knew I was extremely anxious to find out what caused a major transmission failure on essentially a band new transmission.  Nothing at all was said about a disconnected cooler line until the tranny shop did their inspection of the damaged transmission.  Also worth mentioning the restoration tech did not want to blame the stereo guy. He said he really didn't know how that line came off but like I said, he never mentioned finding the disconnected line until the tranny shop announced their discovery then he went along with their story.

My thought is the restoration tech must have disconnected the cooler line himself when replacing the neutral safety switch and then simply forgot to reconnect it when he was done with the switch repair.  The jiffy tite connector has a one way valve in it to prevent tranny fluid from leaking out so that's why nobody saw any fluid and the fluid level always showed full on the dipstick when I checked it.  Of course he didn't say anything when he discovered his mistake upon the transmission removal because he would have implicated himself since he was the last person to work on the car before the tranny got toasted. 

I need some advice on how to handle the situation from here on out.  Obviously the tranny shop is trying to protect the restoration tech from any wrong doing and now they're trying to stick me with the bill to make everything right again.  I'm considering filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau and possibly some sort of small claims lawsuit as well.

Really would appreciate your thoughts on this....thank you in advance!
 




Offline anlauto

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Re: 727 Toasted Due To Disconnected Cooler Line
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2014 - 06:59:23 AM »
If a line was disconnected, where did the oil go ?
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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: 727 Toasted Due To Disconnected Cooler Line
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2014 - 07:24:03 AM »
I assume it just overheated having no cooler flow & burned up the trans .
 Nice situation , someone screwed up & no one wants to take responsibility for it .

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Offline blown motor

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Re: 727 Toasted Due To Disconnected Cooler Line
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2014 - 09:28:52 AM »
Sorry about your situation, it's a tough one to be in. I'd get a lawyer to send them a letter and see if they are willing to budge. The flip side to that is that a lawyer will soon cost more than the repairs. For sure report it to the BBB and let them know that you did.
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Offline burdar

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Re: 727 Toasted Due To Disconnected Cooler Line
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2014 - 09:42:15 AM »
Quote
If a line was disconnected, where did the oil go ?

Exactly!  If a line was disconnected, trans fluid would be pumping out the line.  The trans would have been pumped dry in a matter of minutes. It sounds like maybe the fluid lines were capped somehow and no fluid went through a cooler.  You need the shop to explain the situation more clearly.  What you've posted so far doesn't make sense.

Offline anlauto

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Re: 727 Toasted Due To Disconnected Cooler Line
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2014 - 10:05:17 AM »
 :iagree: 100%. This is a pumping issue NOT a simple line disconnected issue. You need all parties involved to stand under the car and explain clearly why the transmission was not being cooled....why was there blockage?  You mentioned "jiffy tite connector" are all the cooling lines flexable rubber or steel ? Are the lines routed properly ? Who installed the lines ?
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Offline Katfish

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Re: 727 Toasted Due To Disconnected Cooler Line
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2014 - 11:02:02 AM »
Interesting problem, I don't think you'll be able to pin anyone down.
Maybe negotiate a reduced repair bill?

Didn't understand why there was no fluid leak, then read this:

Our fittings are designed to stop fluid flow in both directions when disconnected. Please be aware though that unlike a “dry brake” fitting, two or three drops of fluid may be lost when disconnecting; especially when under pressure.

Offline dfrazz

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Re: 727 Toasted Due To Disconnected Cooler Line
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2014 - 11:08:01 AM »
Have you or the shop completed a through inspection of ALL the other components associated with the trans cooler lines?  I would have thought that when they pulled the transmission they would have noticed a cooler line just dangling there.  But then again, who was around when they pulled the transmission?

Offline tman

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Re: 727 Toasted Due To Disconnected Cooler Line
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2014 - 12:13:50 PM »
http://www.jegs.com/i/Jiffy-tite/517/200T1/10002/-1?parentProductId=1426733

Are these the lines used for you application or something like it?  I guess Im seeing that fluid will not flow out if the line is disconnected.  Does it connect like a airhose from a air compressor, or does it need to be unscrewed?  Never used these lines.  I don't see the stereo installer needing to disconnect the line to put in a stereo.  You have a tough case to prove, but have you discussed this with the resto shop?  If what they claim is "someone bumped the line" causing it to come off, then why in the hell would someone use Jiffie Tite fittings.  If all is required is someone or something "bumping" it, then it shouldn't be installed in a car.  So running over a pothole will cause it to disconnect?  Zip tying your battery line to a transmission line should not have been done (if that is the case), but it shouldn't have any thing to do with causing the trans line to "disconnect."  Jiffie Tite lines look pretty trick, but I think I will just stick with normal metal trans lines so I know when they get disconnected.  Sounds like someone did a half ass job connecting them in the first place or after the neutral safety switch was replaced.  You mention that they don't know how the line came off.  Its either defective or service error. 
Did resto shop install trans?  If so, then your beef is with the Resto shop and its time to have a good discussion over it unless they told you to pound sand. 

Offline Cyberwolf

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Re: 727 Toasted Due To Disconnected Cooler Line
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2014 - 01:02:51 PM »
If a line was disconnected, where did the oil go ?

Good question and the answer to that is the Jiffy tite fittings are designed to stop fluid flow in both directions when disconnected.  That makes it easier to work on things if you have to disconnect the lines for any reason.  The fittings work like an air hose connector so when you disconnect, you don't have to deal with fluid leaking all over the place.

Offline Cyberwolf

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Re: 727 Toasted Due To Disconnected Cooler Line
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2014 - 01:11:53 PM »
I assume it just overheated having no cooler flow & burned up the trans .
 Nice situation , someone screwed up & no one wants to take responsibility for it .

I think you nailed it right there my friend!

Offline Cyberwolf

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Re: 727 Toasted Due To Disconnected Cooler Line
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2014 - 01:56:40 PM »
Sorry about your situation, it's a tough one to be in. I'd get a lawyer to send them a letter and see if they are willing to budge. The flip side to that is that a lawyer will soon cost more than the repairs. For sure report it to the BBB and let them know that you did.

I appreciate your sympathy good sir and yes, I guess it's kind of silly to get a lawyer involved due to the fact the attorney fees would end up being a lot more expensive than just paying for the transmission to be rebuilt.  When considering this option I was thinking more in terms of ethics of the situation and getting to the bottom of happened to a freshly built transmission that was operating perfectly until it overheated and burned up for no apparent reason.  Somebody needs to take responsibility or I'm left with we don't really know what happened and what's to stop it from happening again to me or somebody else who chooses to do business with these people.

Offline Cyberwolf

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Re: 727 Toasted Due To Disconnected Cooler Line
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2014 - 02:45:45 PM »
:iagree: 100%. This is a pumping issue NOT a simple line disconnected issue. You need all parties involved to stand under the car and explain clearly why the transmission was not being cooled....why was there blockage?  You mentioned "jiffy tite connector" are all the cooling lines flexable rubber or steel ? Are the lines routed properly ? Who installed the lines ?


ahhh yes.....you may be onto something here!!  This is what the lines look like. They are flexible braided steel.



I agree with you...I need to figure out if the lines were routed properly and look into the PUMPING aspect you bring up.  The tech at the restoration shop is the person who installed the lines not the tranny shop.  Thanks much for your input...very good points you shine light on here!  I appreciate it very much!

Offline Cyberwolf

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Re: 727 Toasted Due To Disconnected Cooler Line
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2014 - 03:44:19 PM »
Have you or the shop completed a through inspection of ALL the other components associated with the trans cooler lines?  I would have thought that when they pulled the transmission they would have noticed a cooler line just dangling there.  But then again, who was around when they pulled the transmission?

My thoughts exactly!  A dangling line would have been the first thing the tech should have discovered when he put the car up on the hoist to pull the tranny.  If not that then he should have noticed one of the connections was loose when he went underneath and started pulling stuff apart to drop the tranny.

As far as who was around when the transmission was pulled....it was the guy from the restoration shop only.  He was working by himself that day but as soon as he got it out, I went over right away to pick it up and bring it over to the tranny shop so they could pull it apart to see what happened.  He never said a word about finding anything out of place.

All the lines and cooler were inspected but nothing unusual was found.

Offline Cyberwolf

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Re: 727 Toasted Due To Disconnected Cooler Line
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2014 - 10:10:00 PM »
http://www.jegs.com/i/Jiffy-tite/517/200T1/10002/-1?parentProductId=1426733

Are these the lines used for you application or something like it?  I guess Im seeing that fluid will not flow out if the line is disconnected.  Does it connect like a airhose from a air compressor, or does it need to be unscrewed?  Never used these lines.  I don't see the stereo installer needing to disconnect the line to put in a stereo.  You have a tough case to prove, but have you discussed this with the resto shop?  If what they claim is "someone bumped the line" causing it to come off, then why in the hell would someone use Jiffie Tite fittings.  If all is required is someone or something "bumping" it, then it shouldn't be installed in a car.  So running over a pothole will cause it to disconnect?  Zip tying your battery line to a transmission line should not have been done (if that is the case), but it shouldn't have any thing to do with causing the trans line to "disconnect."  Jiffie Tite lines look pretty trick, but I think I will just stick with normal metal trans lines so I know when they get disconnected.  Sounds like someone did a half ass job connecting them in the first place or after the neutral safety switch was replaced.  You mention that they don't know how the line came off.  Its either defective or service error. 
Did resto shop install trans?  If so, then your beef is with the Resto shop and its time to have a good discussion over it unless they told you to pound sand.


Yes...your link example is correct.  Yes...fluid will not flow out when the lines are disconnected.  Yes....it connects like an air hose.  I agree with what your saying about the stereo shop not having anything to do with this...he's just somebody the tranny shop can blame so they can stick me with a big bill. Yes I've discussed with the resto shop but it's really more the transmission shop who is claiming somebody bumped the line causing it to disconnect.  The resto guy just kind of went along with what the tranny shop said but keep in mind, these guys are big buddies so it's difficult to determine who is on my side or not.  Your point about why would the Jiffy tite fittings be used if someone can bump them causing them to come loose is exactly what I was thinking....just doesn't make any sense!  Guys who race use these connections all the time and never have trouble with them coming off...think about how much violent movement/force there is in a race car!  Yeah....I don't blame you for wanting to stick with standard screw-on fittings....maybe I'll switch too after all the hassle I've gone through.

Good point about it's either defective equipment or service error....one or the other.  Today when speaking with the manager of the tranny shop, he stated it was human error that caused the lines to fail so I explained very clearly it was the resto shop tech who was the last person to work on or near that transmission not the stereo shop. If tranny shop really believes someone else is at fault who worked under the car he should tell his buddy at the resto shop to come clean and accept responsibility.  I doubt that happens though.  Seems like these guys cover for each other.

Yes....the resto shop did the initial installation of the transmission and yes my beef should be with them; however, I think it's ironic the tranny guy DOESN'T want to blame the resto shop.  They want to blame the stereo shop!  See they are trying to protect the resto shop! :pullinghair:  I haven't put any pressure on the resto shop yet because I want the tranny shop to realize and admit it could be nobody else's fault except resto shop if they are going to run with the accusation I need to pay because somebody working for me screwed up.